Post by Admin on May 4, 2019 6:29:20 GMT
Srila Prabhupada Requests Phd Scholars to study 5th Canto.
"So now you all Ph.D.'s must carefully study the details of the 5th Canto and make a working model of the universe. If we can explain the passing seasons, eclipses, phases of the moon, passing of day and night, etc. then it will be very powerful propaganda.
I am sending this letter to you, and you can make photocopies of it and send to our other Ph.D.'s and begin serious research into the matter in detail." (Srila Prabhupada, Auckland, 27 April, 1976)
Maybe you need a Phd in bhakti to appreciate the meaning of the 5th canto , nowadays having a Phd accords a person the position of an expert in a specific field yet what we find is that , they are not qualified in regards to Transcendental literature. The topic isn't within the purview of mundane materially trained scientists or scholars , they often simply regurgitate the mundane concept they were taught by a constrictive pedagogy, which is peer reviewed and conforms to the tradition it is based on .
A Devotee however does not rely on specualtion based on mundane theories they take information from perfected souls wno have heard from the creator himself or Bhagavan known as sruti or sabda brahman. First class evidence of the vedas or sruti is taken without interpretation or adulteration .
SB 10.14.3 — Those who, even while remaining situated in their established social positions, throw away the process of speculative knowledge and with their body, words and mind offer all respects to descriptions of Your personality and activities, dedicating their lives to these narrations, which are vibrated by You personally and by Your pure devotees, certainly conquer Your Lordship, although You are otherwise unconquerable by anyone within the three worlds.
CC Madhya 6.135 — “Although there is other evidence, the evidence given in the Vedic version must be taken as foremost. Vedic versions understood directly are first-class evidence.”
CC Madhya 6.137 — “The Vedic statements are self-evident. Whatever is stated there must be accepted. If we interpret according to our own imagination, the authority of the Vedas is immediately lost.”
CC Madhya 6.179 — “If one tries to explain the Vedic literature in a different way, he is indulging in imagination. Any interpretation of the self-evident Vedic version is simply imaginary.
In Srila A.C Bhaktivedantas discussions during 1977 (after the letter to Satsvarupa Das his disciple was created requesting Phd's to study the 5th canto), many times during the 1977 discussions on bhumandala he berated his disciples for being biased and prejudiced by the modern concepts .In regard to this Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada used the nyaya logic to compare the mentality of conditioned souls to frogs in the well ,kupa manduka , who thought their well was the whole world simply because they had never been outside of the well .
--------------------------------------------------
Bhumadala discussions July 1977-
Prabhupāda: What is this? First of all answer this. Their everything proposition is wrong. So how we can trust somebody? What is the answer?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot trust them.
Prabhupāda: Then? But if you cannot trust them, they're rejected immediately. This is one argument. Another argument, kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean? There is so many things. On the whole we are imperfect, and although imperfect, they want to be perfect. That is cheating. Now for argument's sake, if they put some argument, we have to reply. We have to prepare for them. Otherwise they're useless. We know they're useless, but sometimes they put some argument. We have to give answer. This is the position. And our duty is to present picture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam correct. So what do you have to say? At least some answer you should give.
Yaśodā-nandana: The biggest problem we are discussing... We were thinking that the first question they will ask... This is their conception of the world.
Prabhupāda: We reject them.
Yaśodā-nandana: Yes."
"Prabhupāda: You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book; I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book; I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do we accept the contour of the continents? Do we accept the general continents?
Prabhupāda: We accept nothing of their theory. They are prejudiced and nonsense. Formerly they were speaking that the world is flat. Now they have changed = "It is round." So what is the value of his estimate? And you'll find in that book, "probably."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the most frequent word used.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the value of their knowledge? Besides that, they'll insist that life is combination of chemicals, and they cannot produce it. Simply useless. So it is, what is called, childish obstinacy. So why shall I believe them? Just like a child cries, "I want. I want," it is like that. There is no science. Still they will say it is science."
"Prabhupāda: We say that "You have never gone to moon." They will say, "Yes, we have gone." Now they have mentioned, "It is hoax." So how we can believe them? What is the value of their statement? And they promise future, "Yes, we are trying."
"Prabhupāda: You can go further, but you cannot go. That is condition. You are restricted. The same, that you are bound up. If an animal can go further... But he cannot, because he is bound up. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. He is thinking, "I am free." He is not free. So what is the value of his education? This is the real point."
"Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are going west, but do you think where you think that the west is end, that is not end. You can go further.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it never ends because we're going around the planet."
"Prabhupāda: No, that is his dog's mentality, going round. That is dog. He is thinking that "This is the area. Now I..." He's controlled by superior power, that "You cannot go." An example is... There are so many. "There are so many stars, moons, and we'll go there." But he cannot go."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "We accept this premise, that we are limited."
Prabhupāda: But then limited, you cannot say final.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But we say within our limited means we can understand that..."
"Prabhupāda: And limited means if you understand that "I am bound up. I am going round the law," that is all right. But don't say that "Beyond this limit there is nothing.""
..
"Prabhupāda: That's right, west up to this point, rascal, not more than that. Why don't you understand this? West you have gone. That's all right. But after this point, no more. You cannot go. You don't say that there is no more after this west... They are saying that."
"Prabhupāda: We don't say that, that this direction, what you are saying, it is end. That is not. We say that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That it doesn't end.
Prabhupāda: That you can go further, but you cannot go. Therefore you are thinking, "This is end of this position." The same dog mentality. He is within that small area. He is thinking, "There is no more other space." That example is another, that bull. His eyes are closed, and he crushes the oil mill, going. He's thinking he is going three hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They keep the eyes blinded so they won't...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...understand what's going on.
Prabhupāda: Because in one place, simply going round, going round, it makes one mad. So those eyes are closed. He is thinking, "This is the end of world."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have said that, but still you have not given the solution.
Prabhupāda: This is solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've explained it...
Prabhupāda: Solution is that you are thinking, "This is this." You are making solution. You are making solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're trying to make.
Prabhupāda: But I say, because you are limited, this is not this. What you are thinking, "This is this," that is not.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is it?
Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka, the frog in the well, he is thinking that "This is the whole water area.""
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly in relation to the building of the Planetarium during 1977 Tamala Krsna maharaja mentioned that Phd scholars students would call them fools and laugh at them , which Srila Prabhupada was pleased by and chuckled .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.
Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man's brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don't think that... Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Prabhupāda: All right.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevertheless the request for an expert in the field of vedic cosmology , was taken up by the disciples of Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada which led to the meeting with a highly recommended vedic astrologer . Yet upon questioning the man , they found his knowledge in the cosmology of the 5th canto to be severely lacking and commented on the phenomena of so called experts, actually thinking such descriptions were simply imaginary .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conversation with Vedic Astronomer—April 30, 1977, Bombay
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man will not be able to. I mean, the things you were saying, he was thinking... When you started to describe them, he was thinking it had to do with the individual soul. He said that "You're des..." You said, "No, I'm talking about the universe." He said, "Oh, the universe."
Prabhupāda: He does not know anything. Now he goes away. He goes back and he... Why he has come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For your blessings, twelve-hundred-rupee blessing. There are learned men in India. There's no doubt. There must be learned men.
Prabhupāda: All bogus."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We never thought to read Bhāgavatam as you are now talking. We have not read Bhāgavatam like this yet, so I will have to begin to read again as..." I mean, what... I'm only wondering what kind of talk Patita Uddhāraṇa must have had with him that he felt that this man was qualified.
Prabhupāda: So how he'll make diagram? He has no idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he doesn't. He never thought about it. No one reads the Bhāgavatam as a scientific book, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's the point. Except for Your Divine Grace, they are thinking it's story, "It is stories."
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not believe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. And therefore no one takes it seriously. Modern people don't take it seriously.
Prabhupāda: There was a Gosāi. He was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So the description of the planetary system there is. He used to say to his audience, "Actually these things are not there. These are imaginary descriptions." He was such a fool. So the whole world has taken like that, "symbolic, imagination."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he was lecturing on Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I think you mentioned that one of your Godbrothers once said to you, "You really believe that there is such a place, Kṛṣṇaloka, Vaikuṇṭhaloka?" He was himself...
Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja did not believe. No... Nobody ever thought of it."
I am sending this letter to you, and you can make photocopies of it and send to our other Ph.D.'s and begin serious research into the matter in detail." (Srila Prabhupada, Auckland, 27 April, 1976)
Maybe you need a Phd in bhakti to appreciate the meaning of the 5th canto , nowadays having a Phd accords a person the position of an expert in a specific field yet what we find is that , they are not qualified in regards to Transcendental literature. The topic isn't within the purview of mundane materially trained scientists or scholars , they often simply regurgitate the mundane concept they were taught by a constrictive pedagogy, which is peer reviewed and conforms to the tradition it is based on .
A Devotee however does not rely on specualtion based on mundane theories they take information from perfected souls wno have heard from the creator himself or Bhagavan known as sruti or sabda brahman. First class evidence of the vedas or sruti is taken without interpretation or adulteration .
SB 10.14.3 — Those who, even while remaining situated in their established social positions, throw away the process of speculative knowledge and with their body, words and mind offer all respects to descriptions of Your personality and activities, dedicating their lives to these narrations, which are vibrated by You personally and by Your pure devotees, certainly conquer Your Lordship, although You are otherwise unconquerable by anyone within the three worlds.
CC Madhya 6.135 — “Although there is other evidence, the evidence given in the Vedic version must be taken as foremost. Vedic versions understood directly are first-class evidence.”
CC Madhya 6.137 — “The Vedic statements are self-evident. Whatever is stated there must be accepted. If we interpret according to our own imagination, the authority of the Vedas is immediately lost.”
CC Madhya 6.179 — “If one tries to explain the Vedic literature in a different way, he is indulging in imagination. Any interpretation of the self-evident Vedic version is simply imaginary.
In Srila A.C Bhaktivedantas discussions during 1977 (after the letter to Satsvarupa Das his disciple was created requesting Phd's to study the 5th canto), many times during the 1977 discussions on bhumandala he berated his disciples for being biased and prejudiced by the modern concepts .In regard to this Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada used the nyaya logic to compare the mentality of conditioned souls to frogs in the well ,kupa manduka , who thought their well was the whole world simply because they had never been outside of the well .
--------------------------------------------------
Bhumadala discussions July 1977-
Prabhupāda: What is this? First of all answer this. Their everything proposition is wrong. So how we can trust somebody? What is the answer?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot trust them.
Prabhupāda: Then? But if you cannot trust them, they're rejected immediately. This is one argument. Another argument, kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean? There is so many things. On the whole we are imperfect, and although imperfect, they want to be perfect. That is cheating. Now for argument's sake, if they put some argument, we have to reply. We have to prepare for them. Otherwise they're useless. We know they're useless, but sometimes they put some argument. We have to give answer. This is the position. And our duty is to present picture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam correct. So what do you have to say? At least some answer you should give.
Yaśodā-nandana: The biggest problem we are discussing... We were thinking that the first question they will ask... This is their conception of the world.
Prabhupāda: We reject them.
Yaśodā-nandana: Yes."
"Prabhupāda: You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book; I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book; I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do we accept the contour of the continents? Do we accept the general continents?
Prabhupāda: We accept nothing of their theory. They are prejudiced and nonsense. Formerly they were speaking that the world is flat. Now they have changed = "It is round." So what is the value of his estimate? And you'll find in that book, "probably."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the most frequent word used.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the value of their knowledge? Besides that, they'll insist that life is combination of chemicals, and they cannot produce it. Simply useless. So it is, what is called, childish obstinacy. So why shall I believe them? Just like a child cries, "I want. I want," it is like that. There is no science. Still they will say it is science."
"Prabhupāda: We say that "You have never gone to moon." They will say, "Yes, we have gone." Now they have mentioned, "It is hoax." So how we can believe them? What is the value of their statement? And they promise future, "Yes, we are trying."
"Prabhupāda: You can go further, but you cannot go. That is condition. You are restricted. The same, that you are bound up. If an animal can go further... But he cannot, because he is bound up. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. He is thinking, "I am free." He is not free. So what is the value of his education? This is the real point."
"Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are going west, but do you think where you think that the west is end, that is not end. You can go further.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it never ends because we're going around the planet."
"Prabhupāda: No, that is his dog's mentality, going round. That is dog. He is thinking that "This is the area. Now I..." He's controlled by superior power, that "You cannot go." An example is... There are so many. "There are so many stars, moons, and we'll go there." But he cannot go."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "We accept this premise, that we are limited."
Prabhupāda: But then limited, you cannot say final.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But we say within our limited means we can understand that..."
"Prabhupāda: And limited means if you understand that "I am bound up. I am going round the law," that is all right. But don't say that "Beyond this limit there is nothing.""
..
"Prabhupāda: That's right, west up to this point, rascal, not more than that. Why don't you understand this? West you have gone. That's all right. But after this point, no more. You cannot go. You don't say that there is no more after this west... They are saying that."
"Prabhupāda: We don't say that, that this direction, what you are saying, it is end. That is not. We say that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That it doesn't end.
Prabhupāda: That you can go further, but you cannot go. Therefore you are thinking, "This is end of this position." The same dog mentality. He is within that small area. He is thinking, "There is no more other space." That example is another, that bull. His eyes are closed, and he crushes the oil mill, going. He's thinking he is going three hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They keep the eyes blinded so they won't...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...understand what's going on.
Prabhupāda: Because in one place, simply going round, going round, it makes one mad. So those eyes are closed. He is thinking, "This is the end of world."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have said that, but still you have not given the solution.
Prabhupāda: This is solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've explained it...
Prabhupāda: Solution is that you are thinking, "This is this." You are making solution. You are making solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're trying to make.
Prabhupāda: But I say, because you are limited, this is not this. What you are thinking, "This is this," that is not.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is it?
Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka, the frog in the well, he is thinking that "This is the whole water area.""
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly in relation to the building of the Planetarium during 1977 Tamala Krsna maharaja mentioned that Phd scholars students would call them fools and laugh at them , which Srila Prabhupada was pleased by and chuckled .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.
Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man's brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don't think that... Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Prabhupāda: All right.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevertheless the request for an expert in the field of vedic cosmology , was taken up by the disciples of Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada which led to the meeting with a highly recommended vedic astrologer . Yet upon questioning the man , they found his knowledge in the cosmology of the 5th canto to be severely lacking and commented on the phenomena of so called experts, actually thinking such descriptions were simply imaginary .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conversation with Vedic Astronomer—April 30, 1977, Bombay
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man will not be able to. I mean, the things you were saying, he was thinking... When you started to describe them, he was thinking it had to do with the individual soul. He said that "You're des..." You said, "No, I'm talking about the universe." He said, "Oh, the universe."
Prabhupāda: He does not know anything. Now he goes away. He goes back and he... Why he has come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For your blessings, twelve-hundred-rupee blessing. There are learned men in India. There's no doubt. There must be learned men.
Prabhupāda: All bogus."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We never thought to read Bhāgavatam as you are now talking. We have not read Bhāgavatam like this yet, so I will have to begin to read again as..." I mean, what... I'm only wondering what kind of talk Patita Uddhāraṇa must have had with him that he felt that this man was qualified.
Prabhupāda: So how he'll make diagram? He has no idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he doesn't. He never thought about it. No one reads the Bhāgavatam as a scientific book, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's the point. Except for Your Divine Grace, they are thinking it's story, "It is stories."
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not believe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. And therefore no one takes it seriously. Modern people don't take it seriously.
Prabhupāda: There was a Gosāi. He was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So the description of the planetary system there is. He used to say to his audience, "Actually these things are not there. These are imaginary descriptions." He was such a fool. So the whole world has taken like that, "symbolic, imagination."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he was lecturing on Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I think you mentioned that one of your Godbrothers once said to you, "You really believe that there is such a place, Kṛṣṇaloka, Vaikuṇṭhaloka?" He was himself...
Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja did not believe. No... Nobody ever thought of it."
