Post by Admin on Apr 20, 2019 21:21:53 GMT
To Spin or Not To Spin
Srila Prabhupada said there was no spin of the earth . How can we reconcile the ambiguity of such contradictory statements ?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the earth also spinning?
Prabhupāda: No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or is it simply the sun's movement that causes the day and night, everything?
Prabhupāda: No planet is fixed except the sun. All are fixed up. But the whole thing is moving. That is Bhāgavatam. And that you can see at night.
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Srila Prabhupada quite often would have discussions explaining cosmology according to the modern view and from the vedic perspective . He never claimed to be an expert in cosmology or astronomy and he quite often said he was a layman . Nevertheless he would always defer to the superior descriptions of the Srimad Bhagavatam .
We have Srila Prabhupada's own words regarding his translation of the Fifth Canto:
Prabhupada: And it was not possible for me to digest. (laughs) Somebody else helped me to... I am a layman. I do not know.
Tamala Krishna: How did you write it?
Prabhupada: That somebody, Krishna, helped me. That He manufactured...When I was writing, I was praying Krishna that "I do not actually accommodate all this knowledge. Please help me." Yes. That's all right.
(Room Conversation, June 18, 1977, Vrindavana)
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Srila Prabhupada had discussions where he cited the modern version and then found issues with it , to eventually arrive at the vedic conclusion . He would even say if it is true or untrue I am a layman but according to this idea it must be like that -
march 18 1976, Mayapur-
"Prabhupāda: And the... And the moon is not seen also for fifteen days in the month[?]. As a layman, we should say that as the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, the sun is also rising from this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.
Pañcadravida: If that's true, then how does... What about the changes in the moon's face? Sometimes...
Prabhupāda: True or nontrue, I am layman. I am saying that if the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, so sun is also rising from this side and going to this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving."
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Eventually Srila Prabhupada would confirm the vedic version .
March 18 1976, Mayapur-
"Pañcadravida: What is the Vedic explanation, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Vedic explanation is that moon is not going round the earthly planet. [break]"
Feb 6 1976, Mayapur
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Jagadīśa: What is your explanation as to why the sun changes colors?
Prabhupāda: Sun is moving. You are seeing through some color. Then it is color.
Jagadīśa: Seeing through some colors.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are... In your window there is glass, red. So sun is passing; you say sun red. And again it has come; it is white. That is our...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the scientists say the same thing except they say that the earth is moving, not the sun. Same explanation you have given for the colors, they give, except that they say that the earth that is moving, not the sun. They wouldn't accept that point as a proof that the sun is moving.
Prabhupāda: No, sun is moving because the earth and the sun... The distance is the same, but you can calculate the distance from the rising up to the... It is millions, millions of miles. So unless the sun is moving, the earth cannot move so swiftly.
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We see that in some cases Srila Prabhupada even allowed his disciples to think the modern version was correct until he could explain the proper version to them personally .
A testimoney from Srila Prabhupadas Disciple Bhagavat Maharaja -
" One disciple of Srila Prabhupada wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada saying he could not accept that Rahu covered the moon and made the eclipse. He said he was a scientist and knew the scientific truth of how the eclipse manifest by the earth coming in between the moon and the sun. Srila Prabhupada responded in a letter to him that sometimes there is allegory in the Srimad Bhagavatam and that Rahu was an allegory. In the Srimad Bhagavatam in His purports Srila Prabhupada establishes that Rahu indeed exists. However in the personal letter he says no. So which are we to accept?
Later when other letters came asking why Srila Prabhupada said there was allegory in Bhagavatam Srila Prabhupada asked why they are asking these questions. It was revealed that copies of the letters that Srila Prabhupada was writing to individuals were being sent to the GBC to train them to see how Srila Prabhupada was handling the various problems that came up in the society. However the GBC members were sharing them with some of the rank and file devotees. I know because I was one of them. Brahmananda was receiving the letters and I who was his assistant was reading them also. So some devotees had seen the Rahu Allegory letter and were confused. Srila Prabhupada said that he had only told this to the devotee because he was a scientist and he was upset. So Srila Prabhupada wanted to pacify him and said he had planned to explain the truth to him later on."
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Srila Prabhupada repeatably always ordered that the cosmology of the universe must be explained according to sastra and the Srimad Bhagavatam . That in order to reconcile any contradictions we should always accept the verdict of sastra .
Discussions about Bhumandala, july 5 1977, Vrndavana-
"Prabhupāda: Just like I take Kṛṣṇa's word. Bas, fact. You can say that you are prejudiced, you see. This is the book.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a nice explanation, the petals.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is prejudiced. But who is rightly prejudiced who is wrongly prejudiced. That is everywhere. Just like materialistic person will think, "Brainwash. These rascals, they have given all up material enjoyment, and after some phantasmagoria they sacrifice everything. Brainwash." And we are thinking, "Oh, these rascals, got this human form of body, he did not understand what is spiritual life." Both of them—he is rascal and he is rascal. This is going on. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. Is it not? They say, "Brainwash. Unnecessarily they've sacrificed everything." And we say that he got the human form and unnecessarily he is working like cats and...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Both are saying the same thing. Obvious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is correct? Who will decide? I accuse you, you accuse me. But who is correct? Who will decide? That is śāstra. There is no question of argument. That is called pratiṣṭhā. You will never come to any conclusion by arguing. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Somebody must decide. Judge. And that is śāstra. "
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In this discussion Srila Prabhupada first begins by describing that the real himalayas they are not going that it is possible to go there is more land
"Prabhupāda: That you can go further, but you cannot go. Therefore you are thinking, "This is end of this position." The same dog mentality. He is within that small area. He is thinking, "There is no more other space." That example is another, that bull. His eyes are closed, and he crushes the oil mill, going. He's thinking he is going three hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They keep the eyes blinded so they won't...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...understand what's going on.
Prabhupāda: Because in one place, simply going round, going round, it makes one mad. So those eyes are closed. He is thinking, "This is the end of world."
Prabhupāda: Then? But if you cannot trust them, they're rejected immediately. This is one argument. Another argument, (Bengali). The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean? There is so many things. On the whole we are imperfect, and although imperfect, they want to be perfect. That is cheating. Now for argument's sake, if they put some argument, we have to reply. We have to prepare for them. Otherwise they're useless. We know they're useless, but sometimes they put some argument. We have to give answer. This is the position. And our duty is to present picture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam correct. So what do you have to say? At least some answer you should give.
Yaśodā-nandana: The biggest problem we are discussing... We were thinking that the first question they will ask, this is their conception of the world.
Prabhupāda: We reject them.
Yaśodā-nandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: "You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book, I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book, I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict.
Bhakti-prema: This..., we have to reply to this question. They say if we go, we start from Los Angeles and arrive Japan, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Japan and Los Angeles and India, that is not the whole thing.
Bhakti-prema: Yeah, that is not the whole thing, but it is basic point.
Prabhupāda: Huh... Insignificant.
Bhakti-prema: According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if we start from London...
Prabhupāda: That argument also I have refuted. Just like animal, he is bound up. He is rotating around the log, and within that there may be Japan, there may be Calcutta, there may be Los Angeles. You can think this is there. But that is not all. Within that rounding circle, whatever is there, you may think this is all. But that is not all. He's limited condition. So within his limitation (Bengali). Within that limitation he's speaking. But Himalaya and other things, far beyond their limitation. That I have already explained. He's speaking within his limitation. Our position should be, correctly represent what is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But if there is some question, we should ask. Just like I am answering to the reasonable point. That if you are conditioned, within your condition you can see, you can experience, but beyond that you have no right to see. What is Los Angeles, Calcutta, Japan, this is very insignificant space. And they're talking of that. We are talking that Himalaya mountain, we have crossed over Himalaya, we conquered the outer space. How they can think of it?
Bhakti-prema: How to take them to plaksadvipa.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of take them. If you take, he's all right. If you don't take, we cannot change.
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After concluding that the dimensions described in the Srimad Bhagavatam can not possibly be accomodated by the small mundane globe speculation of modern scientists , Srila Prabhupada describes the actual shape of the earth as a lotus petal which is part of Bhumandala .
Prabhupāda: Lotus is also round. Lotus, that petal is also round. Lotus petal is round. So within one lotus petal this round or that round, there is.
Śatadhanya: And within their own limited sphere they can go this way or that way. But they don't know the whole shape.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to draw the shape probably, because according to what we've drawn so far...
Prabhupāda: That you can do, but real thing is we can remain within the limit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: So within the limit...Suppose the lotus petal this way, that way, or this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're asking us to draw the details and make a planetarium very exact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far that hasn't been said, but that's... You can say that Bhārata-varṣa is a petal of the lotus. But I think if you look at the Bhāgavatam, it may... I'd have to see it, what it says. There's a statement that it may be the inner portion of the lotus. I don't know...[break] And what we do, it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Lotus petal... There are so many petals. You are conditioned with one petal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... If that's the explanation, then it can be somehow adjusted.
Prabhupāda: You do not know what is going on outside.
Devotee: There's so many round parts of a lotus petal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that part...That could be adjusted. But there's a place within it, you know, the center part, there's no petals. In the middle of the lotus there's like a... I don't know what you call it, but a... It's a flattish area. They show Kṛṣṇa standing sometimes when they draw a picture of Kṛṣṇa on a lotus.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But your place is in.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: That we have to hear from authority.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept that. I'm just thinking...
Prabhupāda: Unless you are obstinate, you have to accept if you are convinced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept.