Post by Admin on Jan 25, 2017 7:56:58 GMT
WHY DID SRILA PRABHUPADA REFER TO THE EARTH AS A GLOBE ?
The Srimad Bhagavatam does describe the earth as a globe, a lotus globe though , similar to an open sphere with bhumandala situated at the bottom of the lotus cup as a horizontal plane of islands and oceans, sapta dvipas .
SB 5.16.1 — King Parīkṣit said to Śukadeva Gosvāmī: O brāhmaṇa, you have already informed me that the radius of Bhū-maṇḍala extends as far as the sun spreads its light and heat and as far as the moon and all the stars can be seen.
SB 5.16.2 — My dear Lord, the rolling wheels of Mahārāja Priyavrata’s chariot created seven ditches, in which the seven oceans came into existence. Because of these seven oceans, Bhū-maṇḍala is divided into seven islands. You have given a very general description of their measurement, names and characteristics. Now I wish to know of them in detail. Kindly fulfill my desire.
Srila Prabhupada also disagreed with the square flat earth ie it is not square it is round like a disc within, the lotus of bhumandala .Nevertheless Srila Prabhupada went on to state it is flat , as quoted here when he said "Flat. Flat, yes." .
" Prabhupada: the people were under the impression that this world is square. Is it not?
Devotees: Flat.
Prabhupada: Flat. Flat, yes. But in the Vedic sastra, millions of years ago it is mentioned: bhu-gola. Gola means round. Just see. And these rascals say that formerly people were not so intelligent. They are intelligent because they are thinking that this world is flat. And those who have spoken millions of years ago, "It is round," they will have less intelligence. Just see. Bhu, gola. Gola means round. Bhu-gola. Similarly, jagad-anda. Abda means round, just like egg. Anda means egg. Jagad-anda. This universe is egg-shaped. And we can see also, the sky is round. This is the wall of this universe."
It would seem from these statements that Srila Prabhupada knew Bhu gola represents the complete structure of the earth plane bhumandala and that his conjecture concerning the flat idea of christians was with there square take on it . To para phrase Srila Prabhupada , he then says they are simply taking it as flat and square yet they are mistaken, it is also round, it is actually Bhu Gola (a lotus flower with Bhumandala within) .
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakhur says that even when a devotee seems to misquote he is right .
Published by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in "The Harmonist", December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6
"The devotee is always right. The non-devotee in the shape of the empiric pedant is always and necessarily wrong. In the one case there is always present the Substantive Truth and nothing but the Substantive Truth. In the other case there is present the apparent or misleading hypothesis and nothing but un-truth. The wording may have the same external appearance in both cases. The identical verses of the Scriptures may be recited by the devotee and the non-devotee, may be apparently misquoted by the non-devotee but the corresponding values of the two processes remain always categorically different. The devotee is right even when he apparently misquotes, the non-devotee is wrong even when he quotes correctly the very words, chapter and verse of the Scriptures."
Now I am not categorically presenting the case that Srila Prabhupada knew the definitive truth of Bhumandala's actual shape and was never actually really confused by the general consensus of modern cosmology coming from galileo copernicus etc . I am simply presenting the case that this may have been a possibility . I am not a mind reader , but if we reexamine every misquoted evidence naysayers use to support the idea , Srila Prabhupada considered the small globe to be correct, as quotes in the light of confirming the correct model of the larger Bhumandala, or as a bridge to the correct model of Bhumandala. Then that is actually the correct understanding, because Srila Prabhupadas intent was always to bring us closer to the Absolute Truth and the science of Krsna consciousness explained in the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, "The Impetus for Creation" .
That is the essence of Krsna Consciousness we are only concerned with extracting the nectar, the bhakti . Appreciating the true cosmology and discarding the materialistic lifeless exploding nonsense gravity glued planets of rascal speculating scientists and cheating Nasa, in favor of the correct model explained by Krsna's pure devotees in the Bhagavatam. That is favorable for encouraging poor deluded jivas like me to take up the congregational chanting of the holy names of Sri Krsna, thus making the material world Krsna's Creation again. Just like it was all along, rather then a random explosion of nothingness which created matter . If some apparent misunderstanding was there, no harm .
SB 1.1.2 — Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhāgavata Purāṇa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.
SB 1.1.11 — There are many varieties of scriptures, and in all of them there are many prescribed duties, which can be learned only after many years of study in their various divisions. Therefore, O sage, please select the essence of all these scriptures and explain it for the good of all living beings, that by such instruction their hearts may be fully satisfied.
Srila Prabhupada Humility was his qualification for presenting the Bhagavatam and the essence of his character and life was pure bhakti. So that is the real benefit of hearing from such a great soul , it does not matter if there was some irregularity in his composition of the Srimad Bhagavatam because that was all according to Krsna's plan to gradually help us .
"I must admit my frailties in presenting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but still I am hopeful of its good reception by the thinkers and leaders of society on the strength of the following statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (1.5.11):
tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo
yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api
nāmāny anantasya yaśo ’ṅkitāni yac
chṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ
“On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, form and pastimes of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a transcendental creation meant for bringing about a revolution in the impious life of a misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literature, even though irregularly composed, is heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.”
Oṁ tat sat
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami"
SB 5.16.7 — Amidst these divisions, or varṣas, is the varṣa named Ilāvṛta, which is situated in the middle of the whorl of the lotus. Within Ilāvṛta-varṣa is Sumeru Mountain, which is made of gold. Sumeru Mountain is like the pericarp of the lotuslike Bhū-maṇḍala planetary system. The mountain’s height is the same as the width of Jambūdvīpa — or, in other words, 100,000 yojanas [800,000 miles]. Of that, 16,000 yojanas [128,000 miles] are within the earth, and therefore the mountain’s height above the earth is 84,000 yojanas [672,000 miles]. The mountain’s width is 32,000 yojanas [256,000 miles] at its summit and 16,000 yojanas at its base.
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
SB 5.20.37 — By the supreme will of Kṛṣṇa, the mountain known as Lokāloka has been installed as the outer border of the three worlds — Bhūrloka, Bhuvarloka and Svarloka — to control the rays of the sun throughout the universe. All the luminaries, from the sun up to Dhruvaloka, distribute their rays throughout the three worlds, but only within the boundary formed by this mountain. Because it is extremely high, extending even higher than Dhruvaloka, it blocks the rays of the luminaries, which therefore can never extend beyond it.
SB 5.20.38 — Learned scholars who are free from mistakes, illusions and propensities to cheat have thus described the planetary systems and their particular symptoms, measurements and locations. With great deliberation, they have established the truth that the distance between Sumeru and the mountain known as Lokāloka is one fourth of the diameter of the universe — or, in other words, 125,000,000 yojanas [1 billion miles].
In any event what is patently obvious is that people were not ready for the confidential truth of the Srimad Bhagavatams actual Cosmology at that time in the 1970s . That a bridge of gradual adjustment leading to a complete understanding of that confidential truth which is based on complete faith in Sri Guru, yasya deve para bhaktir...is necessary, so it can slowly be unveiled gradually, increasing ones faith in Krsna and Guru till the mixed conception is replaced by a pure conception . On a few occasions Srila Prabhupada said, I should not say that just yet, or even promoted the mundane version until a disciple could reconcile the actual differences in modern speculation with the correct vedic view.
A testimoney from Srila Prabhupadas Disciple Bhagavat Maharaja -
" One disciple of Srila Prabhupada wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada saying he could not accept that Rahu covered the moon and made the eclipse. He said he was a scientist and knew the scientific truth of how the eclipse manifest by the earth coming in between the moon and the sun. Srila Prabhupada responded in a letter to him that sometimes there is allegory in the Srimad Bhagavatam and that Rahu was an allegory. In the Srimad Bhagavatam in His purports Srila Prabhupada establishes that Rahu indeed exists. However in the personal letter he says no. So which are we to accept?
Later when other letters came asking why Srila Prabhupada said there was allegory in Bhagavatam Srila Prabhupada asked why they are asking these questions. It was revealed that copies of the letters that Srila Prabhupada was writing to individuals were being sent to the GBC to train them to see how Srila Prabhupada was handling the various problems that came up in the society. However the GBC members were sharing them with some of the rank and file devotees. I know because I was one of them. Brahmananda was receiving the letters and I who was his assistant was reading them also. So some devotees had seen the Rahu Allegory letter and were confused. Srila Prabhupada said that he had only told this to the devotee because he was a scientist and he was upset. So Srila Prabhupada wanted to pacify him and said he had planned to explain the truth to him later on."
Due to the limitations of Pratyaksha or direct sense perception, what we see with the eye is distorted over greater distances, just like a wide angle lens creates the illusion of curvature, but can be corrected by lens correcter software in photoshop .Similarly when a wide angled camera on a weather balloon goes up to a great height , one may see a disc that appears to have rounded edges and mistake it for a ball, but its not, it's a small section of the huge plane of earth .In the following excerpt many cut off the quote by Srila Prabhupada , to indicate a ball or small earth ball, but if we read the full context, we see that prabhupada is saying the sun is not simply a ball .
"Woman: Now you just said the sun.
Prabhupāda: Sun, yes. He's also a living...
Woman: The sun is a planet.
Prabhupāda: Sun is a planet, but there is a controlling deity also.
Woman: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is a control... Just like here, in this planet, when you go up, you see it is ball, but in this ball there are so many controlling deities here also. President Johnson, prime minister of India, this and that and so many things. But when you go up you see just like a ball. So when you come here you find... Similarly, from the distance of ninety millions of miles you can see the sun just like a ball, but it is not ball. It is a, it is a far, far greater than this planet, and there are cities and there men and there are persons and there are everything. But they are made up of fire. Their body's made of fire. Your body's made of earth. That is the difference. Just like in the water you cannot live because your body is made differently that you cannot live in the water. Similarly, the aquatics in the water, they cannot live in the land. Similarly, because I cannot live in the sun planet due to this, my body, that does not mean there are no living beings. There are living beings. After all, the whole material world is made of five elements, earth, water, fire, air and ether. Now these five elements, in some planet you'll find earth predominant. In some planet you'll find water predominant. In some planet you'll find fire predominant. In some planet you'll find air predominant. But that does not mean that there are no living entities. There are living entities. The sun planet is a planet where is, where fire is predominant. Now, according to medical science that by heat and fire of the germs are killed. But in the fire also there are living entities. Just like Dr. Mishra was giving the example the other day about opium. Now opium is a death poison. Death poison. But in the opium also you'll find some worms.
Woman: Some what?
Prabhupāda: Worms.
Woman: Worms?
Prabhupāda: Yes. How it is possible? They are also living entities. If I, if I take a drop of opium, I die. But they are living and they are eating and they are living there. So because it is impossible for me to eat opium and live, you cannot say that there are other livi..., that there cannot be no living entities there. Similarly you have experience that you cannot live in the fire. That does not mean that in the sun planet there is no living entities. There are living entities. Because in Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that living soul, as it is, it is not burnt by fire. It is not burned by fire. Because it is spiritual. The material elements has no power to destroy it. It is not burnt by fire. So in every planet it is concluded that every planet there are living entities. There are intelligent beings. And because in the higher planets there are more intelligent persons, beings, they are called demigods. The demigods means they have got, practically, qualification almost equal to the Supreme Lord. They have got such qualification."
So everywhere Srila Prabhupada described the earth as a globe is not incorrect , its just a matter of understanding exactly how it is a globe - a lotus flower with the inhabitants within .
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
Srila Prabhupada Refuted the circumambulation of the globe on the outside -
"Prabhupāda: That argument also I have refuted. Just like animal, he is bound up. He is rotating around the log, and within that there may be Japan, there may be Calcutta, there may be Los Angeles. You can think this is there. But that is not all. Within that rounding circle, whatever is there, you may think this is all. But that is not all."
"Prabhupāda: So we are also conditioned. But as far as possible we take description from Bhāgavata, try to. That is our... Suppose here is India, here is Los Angeles. You start from India, Los Angeles..., or India, you'll come to Los Angeles. And again return to India. Similarly you start from this again going.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.
Prabhupāda: But where is the underneath?"
Then he positively affirmed it is a lotus petal as described in the Vayu Purana .
Prabhupāda: If you are going round, you can go round this way or that way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there is no round.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is round. You are thinking round. You are going round... (break)
Prabhupāda: Lotus is also round. Lotus, that petal is also round. Lotus petal is round. So within one lotus petal this round or that round, there is.
Śatadhanya: And within their own limited sphere they can go this way or that way. But they don't know the whole shape.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to draw the shape probably, because according to what we've drawn so far...
Prabhupāda: That you can do, but real thing is we can remain within the limit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: So within the limit... Suppose the lotus petal is this way, that way, or this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're asking us to draw the details and make a planetarium very exact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You make... Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far that hasn't been said, but that's... You can say that Bhārata-varṣa is a petal of the lotus. But I think if you look at the Bhāgavatam, it may... I'd have to see it, what it says. There's a statement that it may be the inner portion of the lotus. I don't know... (break) And what we do, it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Lotus petal... There are so many petals. You are conditioned with one petal."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.
Prabhupāda: But where is the underneath?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Prabhupāda, we weren't asking that issue. That's not the question we were asking.
Prabhupāda: What is that issue?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what you've explained, if it's a lotus petal, then you could fly around it. That's all right. Then the answer is there. But if there's no lotus petal and it's simply flat, then it's a problem. That's a problem.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say flat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've pictured it like that. There's some defect in our picture. If you recall, there's a picture we drew...
Prabhupāda: So rectify it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, well how?
Prabhupāda: That is the explanation. Petal."
As the acarya Srila Prabhupadas lila manifested according to time place and circumstance . Slowly Prabhupada gave the appropriate dose of medicine applicable to kala patra desi (time , place and circumstance) until the culmination of his final instructions regarding the temple of the vedic planetarium in 1977 to his confidential disciples. By cultivation of sadhana in his association Srila Prabhupada's disciples became a fertile field to plant the instructions that were in line with the correct cosmology of the Srimad Bhagavatam . Sometimes Srila Prabhupada claimed to be a layman deferring to his disciples understanding, which was a sign of his modesty, humility and intelligence in allowing his disciples to realize for themselves, the real cosmology, that went against the highly indoctrinated dogma of current mundane speculative thought .
When we examine Srila Prabhupadas lila and take into account all his difficulties and the manner in which he surmounted them, one can only conclude that if any apparent mistakes, if any were made, defined the greatness of his character despite the adversity of this world . Only now does it seem like the world is ready to understand the plane truth of bhumandala within the lotus of bhu gola ,ever since the blossoming of the flat earth movement in 2015 due to Eric Dubay, it has become more acceptable with scientific observations proving we live on a plane, not the outside of a globe .
We see in Srila Prabhupada's preaching he didn't believe in gravity or the spinning propaganda of the small globe which modern science uses to substantiate it, this shows he didn't have much faith in that concept at all , rather, he had faith in the model of Bhu Gola described in the Bhagavatam . From the conclusions he discussed in 1977 at the Bhumandala discussions , it shows he ultimately championed the correct model yet was preoccupied with clearing the jungles of mayavadism and gross materialism all around the lotus globe of bhumandala in bharata varsha . He had not yet elucidated the finer details of the Srimad Bhagavatam 5th canto chapters 16 to 26 previous to that date. This was by Krsna's arrangement because no one had the stomach to digest such sweet and sour lugloo candies at that stage (sweet for devotees, sour for those suffering cognitive dissonance) .
"Pusta Krsna: Is the earth also spinning?
Prabhupada: No.
Pusta Krsna: Or is it simply the sun's movements that causes the day and night, everything?
Prabhupada: No planet is fixed except the sun. All are fixed up. But the whole thing is moving. That is Bhagavatam. And that you can see at night.
Gurudasa: What'd he say?
Panca-dravida: No planet is fixed. The earth and sun, they're all moving.
Gurudasa: The sun is fixed.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, but they're all moving.
Hari-sauri: But they're all moving.
Prabhupada: It is like a tree, just like this. This is moving, and the sun is moving, and all other planets, they are fixed."
"Prabhupāda: [indistinct] But it has got some arrangement, it does not fall down.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, well they accept that also. They say only if there is no such arrangement, then it will fall down.
Prabhupāda: That means conditional. And who makes that condition? That means ultimately you have to accept existence of God.
Śrutakīrti: Just like they say the moon does not go away because the earth is attracting it.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is earth? [laughs] All bogus.
Paramahaṁsa: But if we tell them that there is no law of gravity, they will say that why is it that if you throw up a ball, then it comes down?
Prabhupāda: It comes down, heavy, then it comes down, that's all. [laughs]
Śrutakīrti: But that heaviness, they say, is gravity.
Prabhupāda: You can call anything. [laughs] But if Kṛṣṇa desires, a football may not fall. Just like so many planets, they are carried up by the air. All these planets are moving only by the air. So the heavy land, heavy cloud is carried by the air. It is a question of adjustment of air, not the law of gravity. Now the whole universal planetary system are floating and rotating round the polestar. Is that law of gravity, rotating? It is the arrangement of the air. By the air it is up. Just like there is dust storm, so many are floating in the air. There is no question of law of gravity; it is the air. And the..., who is controlling the air? That is Supreme Personality. Just like in Darwin, the motor buses were floating by the air. It was a great storm there?"
Everywhere Srila Prabhupada mentioned the globe earth, technically he was not incorrect, because it is a lotus sphere with Bhumandala within, called Bhu Gola . Of course such a presentation might be misconstrued as a devious attempt to deny the rotundity of the earth, with people hanging upside down, which one may have believed Srila Prabhupada supported at the time . No harm to err is human and as fragile humans we all cling to the spin of nonsense speculations. When we are attached to enjoyment of a merry go round or the thrill of the gravitron in this world of mundane, petty, temporary pleasures, it can be difficult for the encumbered ego to renounce such futile pleasures . Yet when it is time to leave the fantasy world of mundane carnivals and embrace the real world, then the final instructions of Guru , Sadhu and Sastra take preminence .
If there was a misunderstanding then it was due to yogamayas interference not her shadow mahamaya . So I think its important to highlight that emphasis in appreciating any apparent misunderstanding Srila Prabhupada conveyed by inadvertantly perpetuating ones mistaken globe preconceptions , ie by not presenting the plane aspect of bhumandala which challenges mundane cosmology, blatently, in every verse mentioning the earth , which would have spoiled the preaching . Rather he simply gave the correct meaning of bhu gola or globe , due to modern confusion it could ambiguously be misconstrued with the mistaken small globe, allowing the common populace, or neophytes who could not digest the truth to continue chanting and practicing bhakti undisturbed by such a contradiction with the common world view , till they could appreciate the actual meaning in the due course of time .
SB 7.9.28 Srimad-Bhagavatam My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Nārada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service?
Prabhupada: Krsna's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulations on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Krsna, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does . . . Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rupa Gosvami, yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Krsna conscious." There is no question of vidhi-nisedha. Sarve vidhi-nisedha syur etayor eva kinkarah. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Krsna consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Krsna consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating. (SP Room Conv. Atlanta, March 2, 1975)
May the Vaisnavas , Vaisnavis Guru and Gauranga Be pleased with this humble offering . Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Sankirtanam !
Please accept my humble obeisances - vamsidaran das
SB 5.16.1 — King Parīkṣit said to Śukadeva Gosvāmī: O brāhmaṇa, you have already informed me that the radius of Bhū-maṇḍala extends as far as the sun spreads its light and heat and as far as the moon and all the stars can be seen.
SB 5.16.2 — My dear Lord, the rolling wheels of Mahārāja Priyavrata’s chariot created seven ditches, in which the seven oceans came into existence. Because of these seven oceans, Bhū-maṇḍala is divided into seven islands. You have given a very general description of their measurement, names and characteristics. Now I wish to know of them in detail. Kindly fulfill my desire.
IS THE EARTH SIMPLY FLAT ?
Srila Prabhupada also disagreed with the square flat earth ie it is not square it is round like a disc within, the lotus of bhumandala .Nevertheless Srila Prabhupada went on to state it is flat , as quoted here when he said "Flat. Flat, yes." .
" Prabhupada: the people were under the impression that this world is square. Is it not?
Devotees: Flat.
Prabhupada: Flat. Flat, yes. But in the Vedic sastra, millions of years ago it is mentioned: bhu-gola. Gola means round. Just see. And these rascals say that formerly people were not so intelligent. They are intelligent because they are thinking that this world is flat. And those who have spoken millions of years ago, "It is round," they will have less intelligence. Just see. Bhu, gola. Gola means round. Bhu-gola. Similarly, jagad-anda. Abda means round, just like egg. Anda means egg. Jagad-anda. This universe is egg-shaped. And we can see also, the sky is round. This is the wall of this universe."
It would seem from these statements that Srila Prabhupada knew Bhu gola represents the complete structure of the earth plane bhumandala and that his conjecture concerning the flat idea of christians was with there square take on it . To para phrase Srila Prabhupada , he then says they are simply taking it as flat and square yet they are mistaken, it is also round, it is actually Bhu Gola (a lotus flower with Bhumandala within) .
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakhur says that even when a devotee seems to misquote he is right .
Published by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in "The Harmonist", December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6
"The devotee is always right. The non-devotee in the shape of the empiric pedant is always and necessarily wrong. In the one case there is always present the Substantive Truth and nothing but the Substantive Truth. In the other case there is present the apparent or misleading hypothesis and nothing but un-truth. The wording may have the same external appearance in both cases. The identical verses of the Scriptures may be recited by the devotee and the non-devotee, may be apparently misquoted by the non-devotee but the corresponding values of the two processes remain always categorically different. The devotee is right even when he apparently misquotes, the non-devotee is wrong even when he quotes correctly the very words, chapter and verse of the Scriptures."
Now I am not categorically presenting the case that Srila Prabhupada knew the definitive truth of Bhumandala's actual shape and was never actually really confused by the general consensus of modern cosmology coming from galileo copernicus etc . I am simply presenting the case that this may have been a possibility . I am not a mind reader , but if we reexamine every misquoted evidence naysayers use to support the idea , Srila Prabhupada considered the small globe to be correct, as quotes in the light of confirming the correct model of the larger Bhumandala, or as a bridge to the correct model of Bhumandala. Then that is actually the correct understanding, because Srila Prabhupadas intent was always to bring us closer to the Absolute Truth and the science of Krsna consciousness explained in the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, "The Impetus for Creation" .
TAKING THE ESSENCE , EXTRACTING THE NECTAR , BHAKTI !!!
That is the essence of Krsna Consciousness we are only concerned with extracting the nectar, the bhakti . Appreciating the true cosmology and discarding the materialistic lifeless exploding nonsense gravity glued planets of rascal speculating scientists and cheating Nasa, in favor of the correct model explained by Krsna's pure devotees in the Bhagavatam. That is favorable for encouraging poor deluded jivas like me to take up the congregational chanting of the holy names of Sri Krsna, thus making the material world Krsna's Creation again. Just like it was all along, rather then a random explosion of nothingness which created matter . If some apparent misunderstanding was there, no harm .
SB 1.1.2 — Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhāgavata Purāṇa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.
SB 1.1.11 — There are many varieties of scriptures, and in all of them there are many prescribed duties, which can be learned only after many years of study in their various divisions. Therefore, O sage, please select the essence of all these scriptures and explain it for the good of all living beings, that by such instruction their hearts may be fully satisfied.
HUMILITY IS THE KEY TO UNLOCKING THE TREASURES OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO SRI KRISHNA
Srila Prabhupada Humility was his qualification for presenting the Bhagavatam and the essence of his character and life was pure bhakti. So that is the real benefit of hearing from such a great soul , it does not matter if there was some irregularity in his composition of the Srimad Bhagavatam because that was all according to Krsna's plan to gradually help us .
"I must admit my frailties in presenting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but still I am hopeful of its good reception by the thinkers and leaders of society on the strength of the following statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (1.5.11):
tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo
yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api
nāmāny anantasya yaśo ’ṅkitāni yac
chṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ
“On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, form and pastimes of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a transcendental creation meant for bringing about a revolution in the impious life of a misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literature, even though irregularly composed, is heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.”
Oṁ tat sat
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami"
WHAT DOES SASTRA SAY , SASTRA IS THE JUDGE , WE ACCEPT WHAT THE BHAGAVATAM SAYS !!!
SB 5.16.7 — Amidst these divisions, or varṣas, is the varṣa named Ilāvṛta, which is situated in the middle of the whorl of the lotus. Within Ilāvṛta-varṣa is Sumeru Mountain, which is made of gold. Sumeru Mountain is like the pericarp of the lotuslike Bhū-maṇḍala planetary system. The mountain’s height is the same as the width of Jambūdvīpa — or, in other words, 100,000 yojanas [800,000 miles]. Of that, 16,000 yojanas [128,000 miles] are within the earth, and therefore the mountain’s height above the earth is 84,000 yojanas [672,000 miles]. The mountain’s width is 32,000 yojanas [256,000 miles] at its summit and 16,000 yojanas at its base.
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
SB 5.20.37 — By the supreme will of Kṛṣṇa, the mountain known as Lokāloka has been installed as the outer border of the three worlds — Bhūrloka, Bhuvarloka and Svarloka — to control the rays of the sun throughout the universe. All the luminaries, from the sun up to Dhruvaloka, distribute their rays throughout the three worlds, but only within the boundary formed by this mountain. Because it is extremely high, extending even higher than Dhruvaloka, it blocks the rays of the luminaries, which therefore can never extend beyond it.
SB 5.20.38 — Learned scholars who are free from mistakes, illusions and propensities to cheat have thus described the planetary systems and their particular symptoms, measurements and locations. With great deliberation, they have established the truth that the distance between Sumeru and the mountain known as Lokāloka is one fourth of the diameter of the universe — or, in other words, 125,000,000 yojanas [1 billion miles].
WHO CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH ?
In any event what is patently obvious is that people were not ready for the confidential truth of the Srimad Bhagavatams actual Cosmology at that time in the 1970s . That a bridge of gradual adjustment leading to a complete understanding of that confidential truth which is based on complete faith in Sri Guru, yasya deve para bhaktir...is necessary, so it can slowly be unveiled gradually, increasing ones faith in Krsna and Guru till the mixed conception is replaced by a pure conception . On a few occasions Srila Prabhupada said, I should not say that just yet, or even promoted the mundane version until a disciple could reconcile the actual differences in modern speculation with the correct vedic view.
A testimoney from Srila Prabhupadas Disciple Bhagavat Maharaja -
" One disciple of Srila Prabhupada wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada saying he could not accept that Rahu covered the moon and made the eclipse. He said he was a scientist and knew the scientific truth of how the eclipse manifest by the earth coming in between the moon and the sun. Srila Prabhupada responded in a letter to him that sometimes there is allegory in the Srimad Bhagavatam and that Rahu was an allegory. In the Srimad Bhagavatam in His purports Srila Prabhupada establishes that Rahu indeed exists. However in the personal letter he says no. So which are we to accept?
Later when other letters came asking why Srila Prabhupada said there was allegory in Bhagavatam Srila Prabhupada asked why they are asking these questions. It was revealed that copies of the letters that Srila Prabhupada was writing to individuals were being sent to the GBC to train them to see how Srila Prabhupada was handling the various problems that came up in the society. However the GBC members were sharing them with some of the rank and file devotees. I know because I was one of them. Brahmananda was receiving the letters and I who was his assistant was reading them also. So some devotees had seen the Rahu Allegory letter and were confused. Srila Prabhupada said that he had only told this to the devotee because he was a scientist and he was upset. So Srila Prabhupada wanted to pacify him and said he had planned to explain the truth to him later on."
ITS A BALL , REALLY ? LETS LOOK A LITTLE DEEPER BEYOND THE SURFACE , WITHIN !
Due to the limitations of Pratyaksha or direct sense perception, what we see with the eye is distorted over greater distances, just like a wide angle lens creates the illusion of curvature, but can be corrected by lens correcter software in photoshop .Similarly when a wide angled camera on a weather balloon goes up to a great height , one may see a disc that appears to have rounded edges and mistake it for a ball, but its not, it's a small section of the huge plane of earth .In the following excerpt many cut off the quote by Srila Prabhupada , to indicate a ball or small earth ball, but if we read the full context, we see that prabhupada is saying the sun is not simply a ball .
"Woman: Now you just said the sun.
Prabhupāda: Sun, yes. He's also a living...
Woman: The sun is a planet.
Prabhupāda: Sun is a planet, but there is a controlling deity also.
Woman: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is a control... Just like here, in this planet, when you go up, you see it is ball, but in this ball there are so many controlling deities here also. President Johnson, prime minister of India, this and that and so many things. But when you go up you see just like a ball. So when you come here you find... Similarly, from the distance of ninety millions of miles you can see the sun just like a ball, but it is not ball. It is a, it is a far, far greater than this planet, and there are cities and there men and there are persons and there are everything. But they are made up of fire. Their body's made of fire. Your body's made of earth. That is the difference. Just like in the water you cannot live because your body is made differently that you cannot live in the water. Similarly, the aquatics in the water, they cannot live in the land. Similarly, because I cannot live in the sun planet due to this, my body, that does not mean there are no living beings. There are living beings. After all, the whole material world is made of five elements, earth, water, fire, air and ether. Now these five elements, in some planet you'll find earth predominant. In some planet you'll find water predominant. In some planet you'll find fire predominant. In some planet you'll find air predominant. But that does not mean that there are no living entities. There are living entities. The sun planet is a planet where is, where fire is predominant. Now, according to medical science that by heat and fire of the germs are killed. But in the fire also there are living entities. Just like Dr. Mishra was giving the example the other day about opium. Now opium is a death poison. Death poison. But in the opium also you'll find some worms.
Woman: Some what?
Prabhupāda: Worms.
Woman: Worms?
Prabhupāda: Yes. How it is possible? They are also living entities. If I, if I take a drop of opium, I die. But they are living and they are eating and they are living there. So because it is impossible for me to eat opium and live, you cannot say that there are other livi..., that there cannot be no living entities there. Similarly you have experience that you cannot live in the fire. That does not mean that in the sun planet there is no living entities. There are living entities. Because in Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that living soul, as it is, it is not burnt by fire. It is not burned by fire. Because it is spiritual. The material elements has no power to destroy it. It is not burnt by fire. So in every planet it is concluded that every planet there are living entities. There are intelligent beings. And because in the higher planets there are more intelligent persons, beings, they are called demigods. The demigods means they have got, practically, qualification almost equal to the Supreme Lord. They have got such qualification."
So everywhere Srila Prabhupada described the earth as a globe is not incorrect , its just a matter of understanding exactly how it is a globe - a lotus flower with the inhabitants within .
SIDDHANTA - THE FINAL CONCLUSIONS -
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
Srila Prabhupada Refuted the circumambulation of the globe on the outside -
"Prabhupāda: That argument also I have refuted. Just like animal, he is bound up. He is rotating around the log, and within that there may be Japan, there may be Calcutta, there may be Los Angeles. You can think this is there. But that is not all. Within that rounding circle, whatever is there, you may think this is all. But that is not all."
"Prabhupāda: So we are also conditioned. But as far as possible we take description from Bhāgavata, try to. That is our... Suppose here is India, here is Los Angeles. You start from India, Los Angeles..., or India, you'll come to Los Angeles. And again return to India. Similarly you start from this again going.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.
Prabhupāda: But where is the underneath?"
Then he positively affirmed it is a lotus petal as described in the Vayu Purana .
Prabhupāda: If you are going round, you can go round this way or that way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there is no round.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is round. You are thinking round. You are going round... (break)
Prabhupāda: Lotus is also round. Lotus, that petal is also round. Lotus petal is round. So within one lotus petal this round or that round, there is.
Śatadhanya: And within their own limited sphere they can go this way or that way. But they don't know the whole shape.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to draw the shape probably, because according to what we've drawn so far...
Prabhupāda: That you can do, but real thing is we can remain within the limit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: So within the limit... Suppose the lotus petal is this way, that way, or this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're asking us to draw the details and make a planetarium very exact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You make... Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far that hasn't been said, but that's... You can say that Bhārata-varṣa is a petal of the lotus. But I think if you look at the Bhāgavatam, it may... I'd have to see it, what it says. There's a statement that it may be the inner portion of the lotus. I don't know... (break) And what we do, it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Lotus petal... There are so many petals. You are conditioned with one petal."
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.
Prabhupāda: But where is the underneath?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Prabhupāda, we weren't asking that issue. That's not the question we were asking.
Prabhupāda: What is that issue?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what you've explained, if it's a lotus petal, then you could fly around it. That's all right. Then the answer is there. But if there's no lotus petal and it's simply flat, then it's a problem. That's a problem.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say flat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've pictured it like that. There's some defect in our picture. If you recall, there's a picture we drew...
Prabhupāda: So rectify it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, well how?
Prabhupāda: That is the explanation. Petal."
ACARYAS GIVE INSTRUCTIONS DUE TO TIME & CIRCUMSTANCE, LIKE AN EXPERT SURGEON .
As the acarya Srila Prabhupadas lila manifested according to time place and circumstance . Slowly Prabhupada gave the appropriate dose of medicine applicable to kala patra desi (time , place and circumstance) until the culmination of his final instructions regarding the temple of the vedic planetarium in 1977 to his confidential disciples. By cultivation of sadhana in his association Srila Prabhupada's disciples became a fertile field to plant the instructions that were in line with the correct cosmology of the Srimad Bhagavatam . Sometimes Srila Prabhupada claimed to be a layman deferring to his disciples understanding, which was a sign of his modesty, humility and intelligence in allowing his disciples to realize for themselves, the real cosmology, that went against the highly indoctrinated dogma of current mundane speculative thought .
When we examine Srila Prabhupadas lila and take into account all his difficulties and the manner in which he surmounted them, one can only conclude that if any apparent mistakes, if any were made, defined the greatness of his character despite the adversity of this world . Only now does it seem like the world is ready to understand the plane truth of bhumandala within the lotus of bhu gola ,ever since the blossoming of the flat earth movement in 2015 due to Eric Dubay, it has become more acceptable with scientific observations proving we live on a plane, not the outside of a globe .
We see in Srila Prabhupada's preaching he didn't believe in gravity or the spinning propaganda of the small globe which modern science uses to substantiate it, this shows he didn't have much faith in that concept at all , rather, he had faith in the model of Bhu Gola described in the Bhagavatam . From the conclusions he discussed in 1977 at the Bhumandala discussions , it shows he ultimately championed the correct model yet was preoccupied with clearing the jungles of mayavadism and gross materialism all around the lotus globe of bhumandala in bharata varsha . He had not yet elucidated the finer details of the Srimad Bhagavatam 5th canto chapters 16 to 26 previous to that date. This was by Krsna's arrangement because no one had the stomach to digest such sweet and sour lugloo candies at that stage (sweet for devotees, sour for those suffering cognitive dissonance) .
"Pusta Krsna: Is the earth also spinning?
Prabhupada: No.
Pusta Krsna: Or is it simply the sun's movements that causes the day and night, everything?
Prabhupada: No planet is fixed except the sun. All are fixed up. But the whole thing is moving. That is Bhagavatam. And that you can see at night.
Gurudasa: What'd he say?
Panca-dravida: No planet is fixed. The earth and sun, they're all moving.
Gurudasa: The sun is fixed.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, but they're all moving.
Hari-sauri: But they're all moving.
Prabhupada: It is like a tree, just like this. This is moving, and the sun is moving, and all other planets, they are fixed."
"Prabhupāda: [indistinct] But it has got some arrangement, it does not fall down.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, well they accept that also. They say only if there is no such arrangement, then it will fall down.
Prabhupāda: That means conditional. And who makes that condition? That means ultimately you have to accept existence of God.
Śrutakīrti: Just like they say the moon does not go away because the earth is attracting it.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is earth? [laughs] All bogus.
Paramahaṁsa: But if we tell them that there is no law of gravity, they will say that why is it that if you throw up a ball, then it comes down?
Prabhupāda: It comes down, heavy, then it comes down, that's all. [laughs]
Śrutakīrti: But that heaviness, they say, is gravity.
Prabhupāda: You can call anything. [laughs] But if Kṛṣṇa desires, a football may not fall. Just like so many planets, they are carried up by the air. All these planets are moving only by the air. So the heavy land, heavy cloud is carried by the air. It is a question of adjustment of air, not the law of gravity. Now the whole universal planetary system are floating and rotating round the polestar. Is that law of gravity, rotating? It is the arrangement of the air. By the air it is up. Just like there is dust storm, so many are floating in the air. There is no question of law of gravity; it is the air. And the..., who is controlling the air? That is Supreme Personality. Just like in Darwin, the motor buses were floating by the air. It was a great storm there?"
Everywhere Srila Prabhupada mentioned the globe earth, technically he was not incorrect, because it is a lotus sphere with Bhumandala within, called Bhu Gola . Of course such a presentation might be misconstrued as a devious attempt to deny the rotundity of the earth, with people hanging upside down, which one may have believed Srila Prabhupada supported at the time . No harm to err is human and as fragile humans we all cling to the spin of nonsense speculations. When we are attached to enjoyment of a merry go round or the thrill of the gravitron in this world of mundane, petty, temporary pleasures, it can be difficult for the encumbered ego to renounce such futile pleasures . Yet when it is time to leave the fantasy world of mundane carnivals and embrace the real world, then the final instructions of Guru , Sadhu and Sastra take preminence .
THE PURE DEVOTEE IS THE INFALLIBLE REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD
If there was a misunderstanding then it was due to yogamayas interference not her shadow mahamaya . So I think its important to highlight that emphasis in appreciating any apparent misunderstanding Srila Prabhupada conveyed by inadvertantly perpetuating ones mistaken globe preconceptions , ie by not presenting the plane aspect of bhumandala which challenges mundane cosmology, blatently, in every verse mentioning the earth , which would have spoiled the preaching . Rather he simply gave the correct meaning of bhu gola or globe , due to modern confusion it could ambiguously be misconstrued with the mistaken small globe, allowing the common populace, or neophytes who could not digest the truth to continue chanting and practicing bhakti undisturbed by such a contradiction with the common world view , till they could appreciate the actual meaning in the due course of time .
SB 7.9.28 Srimad-Bhagavatam My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Nārada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service?
Prabhupada: Krsna's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulations on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Krsna, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does . . . Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rupa Gosvami, yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Krsna conscious." There is no question of vidhi-nisedha. Sarve vidhi-nisedha syur etayor eva kinkarah. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Krsna consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Krsna consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating. (SP Room Conv. Atlanta, March 2, 1975)
May the Vaisnavas , Vaisnavis Guru and Gauranga Be pleased with this humble offering . Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Sankirtanam !
Please accept my humble obeisances - vamsidaran das