Post by Admin on Dec 21, 2016 6:58:52 GMT
Blind following the Blind
Blind men following other blind men into ditches . Its unfortunnate that many people including sincere devotees are misconstruing the shape of the earth, yet it is to be expected when it is the common misconception of 99.9% of the world ! Unless you take the time to scrutinize the 5th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam properly you would not even get a clue that everything we have conceived is wrong .
SB 7.9.28 — My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Nārada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service?
"Prabhupāda: What is this? First of all answer this. Their everything proposition is wrong. So how we can trust somebody? What is the answer?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot trust them.
Prabhupāda: Then? But if you cannot trust them, they're rejected immediately. This is one argument. Another argument, kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean? There is so many things. On the whole we are imperfect, and although imperfect, they want to be perfect. That is cheating. Now for argument's sake, if they put some argument, we have to reply. We have to prepare for them. Otherwise they're useless. We know they're useless, but sometimes they put some argument. We have to give answer. This is the position. And our duty is to present picture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam correct. So what do you have to say? At least some answer you should give.
Yaśodā-nandana: The biggest problem we are discussing... We were thinking that the first question they will ask... This is their conception of the world.
Prabhupāda: We reject them."
VRNDAVAN - July 05, 1977
"Bhakti-prema: Earth is round and flat both, together.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-prema: First we should... We can reply it is acintya. This should be the reply. "Inconceivable."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then why are we showing them...
Yaśodā-nandana: If it is inconceivable, then they will say, "How we can conceive it?"
Prabhupāda: Take the version of Bhāgavatam.
Bhakti-prema: Everything we conceived, that is wrong?
Prabhupāda: Everything you conceived, that is wrong.
Bhakti-prema: Yes. Very good point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore inconceivable.
Bhakti-prema: The Lord is inconceivable always and any (indistinct), it is inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: But we have to accept śāstra."
VRNDAVAN - July 05, 1977
Everyone is quoting this as proof that it seems flat but it is a small globe . Yet that is incorrect when we check sastra the globe is the lotus , and inside the cup of that lotus globe there is bhumanndala not a small spinning top floating above it lol.
Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada says that lord Varaha picked up the whole of Bhumandala, so if somebody is trying to say that the earth is a small spinning globe and our scriptures confirm that lord Varahadev picked up a small spinning globe on his tusks then they are mistaken.
"Puskara: Srila Prabhupada, previously we painted in the art department... It's described that Varaha lifted the earth, and the earth was a globe, and we showed also a globe of the earth. How does that relate to this? Previously, when we painted, we showed the earth a ball. So now the artists will be very confused. How it fell in the Garbha Ocean as a ball?
Yasodanandana: It depends on what we mean by earth. The Western conception of earth is just five continents and a few oceans, but according to Bhagavatam, earth means Jambudvipa, because earth is connected with Jambudvipa.
Puskara: So whole Jambudvipa fell.
Bhakti-prema: Bhagavata describes the height of Himalayas, eighty thousand miles.
Prabhupada: No, about this earth globe.
Bhakti-prema: About the earth it describes four billion miles.
Tamala Krsna: That means Jambudvipa.
Bhakti-prema: No, that means complete earth, four billion miles. That is eight lakhs miles, Jambudvipa.
Tamala Krsna: Four billion is the universe.
Bhakti-prema: Bhu-mandala.
Tamala Krsna: Bhu-mandala. Oh, the Bhagavatam describes Bhu-mandala as earth.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Yasodanandana: Bhumi.
Bhakti-prema: (indistinct) has come from the Garbhodaka ocean, from the bottom of the (indistinct) ocean.
Prabhupada: So explained there. Then this question is solved.."
\June 28, 1977, Vrndavana
Bhugola is the description of the lotus sphere with Bhumandala within , so it is a reference more specifically to Bhumandala .
SB 5.16.4 — The great ṛṣi Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: My dear King, there is no limit to the expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead’s material energy. This material world is a transformation of the material qualities [sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa], yet no one could possibly explain it perfectly, even in a lifetime as long as that of Brahmā. No one in the material world is perfect, and an imperfect person could not describe this material universe accurately, even after continued speculation. O King, I shall nevertheless try to explain to you the principal regions, such as Bhūloka, with their names, forms, measurements and various symptoms.
The sanskrit translation in this verse clearly states "bhū-golaka-viśeṣam — the particular description of Bhūloka" in the subsequent verse describing the lotus of Bhumandala or Bhugola ,Bhuloka the sanskrit says - "kuvalaya — the Bhūloka; kamala-kośa — of the whorl of a lotus flower".
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
This is accepted by thoroughly honest men.
SB 5.20.38 — Learned scholars who are free from mistakes, illusions and propensities to cheat have thus described the planetary systems and their particular symptoms, measurements and locations. With great deliberation, they have established the truth that the distance between Sumeru and the mountain known as Lokāloka is one fourth of the diameter of the universe — or, in other words, 125,000,000 yojanas [1 billion miles].
Srila Prabhupada sanctioned the globe earth pictures of Varahadev for preaching purposes because everybody is thinking that even though it is not .
"Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it never ends because we're going around the planet.
Prabhupāda: No, that is his dog's mentality, going round. That is dog. He is thinking that "This is the area. Now I..." He's controlled by superior power, that "You cannot go." An example is... There are so many. "There are so many stars, moons, and we'll go there." But he cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "We accept this premise, that we are limited."
Prabhupāda: But then limited, you cannot say final."
VRNDAVAN - July 03, 1977
"Prabhupada: That I should not exactly immediately say.
Gurudasa: We don't accept.
Pusta Krsna: No. Prabhupada just said, "Not right now."
Prabhupada: But moon is far away from the sun. That is from Bhagavatam.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, there's another question I have. I remember on a walk.... I have read in your books that the moon's glowing is due to reflecting the sun. Then I remember on a walk in Vrndavana you said that the moon is fiery just like the sun, but there's a cooling atmosphere around it. So is it actually fiery glow, or is it simply a reflecting glow?
Prabhupada: That is stated in Bhagavatam.
Gurudasa: It says reflection in the Bhagavata.
Prabhupada: No, it is also a fiery place. But it is because it is far away from the sun, it is not so glowing.
Tamala Krsna: So it's not a question of reflection only.
Prabhupada: The reflection theory is the modern theory.
Tamala Krsna: Because sometimes in the books it's stated...
Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes I have said or taken this modern theory.
Tamala Krsna: Just so that people will understand an example. I see."
Mayapura, March 18, 1976
Nevertheles the earth is Bhumandala which Srila Prabhupada confirmed by including the sanskrit commentary to canto 5 chapter 20 verse 38 explaining how the earth or Bhumandala is not quite 500 million yojans wide .
Bhu-gola refers to Bhu-mandala, ie: the ENTIRE earthly realm, which is almost 4 billion miles in diameter. It does not refer to what we know as 'earth'. Varaha did not lift up a tiny ball earth - He lifted up the entire Bhu-mandala. Here is the confirmation from Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura's commentary of SB, 5.20.38:
"Bhūloka is 493,400,000 yojanas with the oceans, islands and mountains. There is thus a space of 1,700,000 yojanas from the universal shell all around. Because of this Śeṣa holds up the earth [Bhu-mandala - not an earth globe] and the elephants of the directions steady it. To explain the dimensions in any other way would make the descriptions mentioned here useless, since it has been mentioned that the diameter to the shell of the universe is 500,000,000 yojanas. It would also be impossible for Vāraha to lift up the earth (bhū-maṇḍala) which has sunk in the Garbodhaka Ocean during Cākṣuṣa Manvantara, if bhu-maṇḍala was 500,000,000 yojanas in diameter. [end of commentary]"
All of the ancient paintings of Varaha show this.
Vayu Puran says "34:46 The four famous islands / regions / varsas are like petals of the flower (Bhārata, Kuru, Bhadrāśva and Ketumāla) and Meru is the pericarp."
"Prabhupāda: Lotus is also round. Lotus, that petal is also round. Lotus petal is round. So within one lotus petal this round or that round, there is.
Śatadhanya: And within their own limited sphere they can go this way or that way. But they don't know the whole shape.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to draw the shape probably, because according to what we've drawn so far...
Prabhupāda: That you can do, but real thing is we can remain within the limit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: So within the limit... Suppose the lotus petal is this way, that way, or this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're asking us to draw the details and make a planetarium very exact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You make... Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far that hasn't been said, but that's... You can say that Bhārata-varṣa is a petal of the lotus. But I think if you look at the Bhāgavatam, it may... I'd have to see it, what it says. There's a statement that it may be the inner portion of the lotus. I don't know... (break) And what we do, it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Lotus petal... There are so many petals. You are conditioned with one petal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... If that's the explanation, then it can be somehow adjusted.
Prabhupāda: You do not know what is going on outside.
Śatadhanya: There's so many round parts of a lotus petal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that part...That could be adjusted. But there's a place within it, you know, the center part, there's no petals. In the middle of the lotus there's like a... I don't know what you call it, but a... It's a flattish area. They show Kṛṣṇa standing sometimes when they draw a picture of Kṛṣṇa on a lotus.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But your place is in.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: That we have to hear from authority.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept that. I'm just thinking...
Prabhupāda: Unless you are obstinate, you have to accept if you are convinced."
VRNDAVAN - July 03, 1977
