Post by Admin on Feb 1, 2016 16:37:32 GMT
Mt Sumeru the merucentric centre of bhumandala.
All Glories to Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada the founder acharya of the International Society Krsna Consciousness . Today I would like to address the vedic paradigm within which there is a growing awareness that the Srimad Bhagavatam and Puaranas have described a plane of 7 islands and oceans. Sapta dvipas Beginning with Jambudvipa, of which Bharata varsha is described as one of the 9 islands in that flat lotus petal/leaf like island .
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
SB 5.16.6 — In Jambūdvīpa there are nine divisions of land, each with a length of 9,000 yojanas [72,000 miles]. There are eight mountains that mark the boundaries of these divisions and separate them nicely.
So there is ample evidence for the plane within the lotus flower of Bhumandala, yet due to contradictory modern views and global consciousness promoted since the advent of the heliocentric globe model of Copernicus in 1543, there is doubt in the minds of people who have accepted modern mundane scientific views and hoax images of space .With the recent advent of the propaganda from the known hoax space agency nasa some devotees of Krsna have made a concerted effort to comform to the mundane views of modern scholars and space agency advocates .
2 Contradictory Models - plane of Bhumandala or Globe of Earth?
Wait stop the press you say ! Devotees of the globe model say Sastra also contradicts itself and promotes 2 contradictory views a globe and a plane, is this an effect of Kalpa Bheda?. Could the subsequent annihilation of the universe and its recreation by lord Bhrahma create the same pastimes with different variations ? Well, actually ,no, unless there is some sastric reference to a different manifestation of the universe we must accept the verdict of the revealed scriptures as authoritative .
So what is the correct model for the earth a small spinning globe presented by mundane scientists, which only seems to be supported by the words parimandala(does this mean a sphere or simply a flat round disc?) bhugola and the Surya Siddhanta spoken by an amsa of the sun god to the sura Maya Danava? Is it the plane within Bhumandala with Mt Sumeru as the merucentric centre of a plane, extending out to the loka loka mountains which cup the svarga realms and holds all the celestial bodies such as the Sun, Moon, planets and stars within, orbiting over Bhumandala ? It cannot be both either it is a small spinning globe or a plane within Bhumandala !
Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.2.101):
śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
aikāntikī harer bhaktir
utpātāyaiva kalpate
"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas and Nārada Pañcarātra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."
So let us examine the evidence for the plane of earth that includes - Jambudvipa, Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kusadwipa, krauncadvipa, Sakadvipa, Puskaradvipa along with there various intermediary oceans that begin with the salt water ocean , sugarcane, liquor , clarified butter , milk and clear water . It is interesting to note that a purana has 5 primary qualities according to several puranas, such as the Matysa Purana.
1 Sarga: cosmogony
2 Pratisarga: cosmogony and cosmology
3 Vamśa: genealogy of the gods, sages and kings
4 Manvañtara: cosmic cycles, history of the world during the time of one patriarch
5 Vamśānucaritam: legends during the times of various kings
So Cosmogeny is defined as follows -
Cosmogony (or cosmogeny) is any model concerning the coming-into-existence (i.e. origin) of either the cosmos (i.e. universe), or the reality of sentient beings.
Cosmology - is the scientific study of the large scale properties of the universe as a whole. It endeavors to use the scientific method to understand the origin, evolution and ultimate fate of the entire Universe.
The puranas describe Pratisarga this is the symptom of a purana . This is what we find in the principle Mahapuranas, that they all describe the geography of earth .
Visnu Purana -"You have already been told that the world is divided into seven dvipas, Jambu, Shalmali, Krouncha, Palksha, Shaka, Pushkara and Kusha. The seven dvipas are surrounded by seven oceans. Their names are Lavana, Ikshu, Sura, Sarpi, Dadhi, Dugdha and Jala. Jambudvipa is right in the middle. And in the middle of Jambudvipa is the golden-hued Mount Meru. If the earth were to be a lotus flower, Mount Meru would be the stamen.
To the south of Mount Meru lies first Bharatavarsha, then Kimpurushavarsha and eventually Harivarsha. To the north lies first Ramyaka, then Hiranmaya and eventually the northern part of Kuruvarsha. Mount Meru is actually in Ilavritavarsha. And on four sides of Mount Meru are four mountains. To the east is Mandras, to the south Gandhamadna, to the west Vipula and to the north Suparshva. These mountains have a lot of jambu or jamum trees. That is why the region is known as Jambudvipa. There are four beautiful lakes around Mount Meru. Their names are Arunoda, Mahabhadra, Asitoda and Namasa. On the peak of Mount Meru is Brahma’s famous city.
Jambudvipa is surrounded by the ocean named Lavana. The people of Jambudvipa worship Vishnu. In other dvipas, other gods are worshipped. Bharatavarsha is the best part of Jambudvipa.
There are seven underworlds (patala) on earth. Their names are Atala, Vitala, Nitala, Gabhastimata, Mahatala, Sutala and Patala. Here live the danavas, daityas, yakshas and nagas. Narada once went on a trip to patala and discovered that patala was more beautiful than svaraga. It was a place full of jewels. During the day, the artificial sun only provided light, but no heat. And during the night, the artificial moonbeams provided light, but no cold. Patala was full of rivers, forests and lakes. The inhabitants of patala wore beautiful clothes, rubbed scented paste on their bodies and loved music. At the bottom of patala was Vishnu in the form of a thousand-headed snake. This snake was known as Shesha.
Under the earth and the water are several hells (naraka). They form the kingdom that Yama rules over. "
Agni Purana - "The world is divided into seven regions (dvipas). Their names are Jambu, Plaksha, Shalmali, Kusha, Krouncha, Shaka, and Pushkara. The seven dvipas are surrounded by seven oceans and the names of these oceans are Lavana, Ikshu, Sura, Sarpih, Dadhi, Dugdha and Jala.
Right in the centre of Jambudvipa is Mount Meru. Mountains named Himavana, Hemakuta and Nishada are to the south of Meru and mountains named Nila, shveta and Shringi are to the north of Meru. Jambudvipa is known by that name as there are a large number of jambu (jamun) trees in this area. On the top Mount Meru is Brahma’s famous city.
Under the earth is the underworld. This too, consists of seven regions and their names are Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Mahatala, Rasatsala and Patala. The daityas and the danavas live in the underworld. Vishnu is also there in the underworld, in his form of the great snake Shesha. The snake Shesha holds up the earth on its hood.
That part of the sky which is lit up by sun-rays is known as Nabha. Above the earth is the sun, above the sun the moon, above the moon the stars, above the stars Mercury, above Mercury Venus, above Venus Jupiter and above Jupiter the constellation of the Great Bear (saptarshimandala). Beyond this constellation is the world of Dhruva."
Narada Purana - "The universe is divided into fourteen regions (bhuvanas or lokas). Seven of them form the upper regions and are known as bhuloka, bhuvarloka, svarloka, maharloka, janaloka and satyaloka. There ae seven more regions that constiute the lower regions or the underworld. Their names are atala, vitala, sutala,talatala, mahatala, rasatla and patala. The word patala is also used to signify all of the underworld as a region.
Each of the fourteen regions has its own inhabitants, mountains and rivers. The earth is bhuloka and the earth is split up into seven regions (dvipas). They are known as Jambudvipa, Plakshadvipa, Shalmaladvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Shakadvipa and Pushkaradvipa.
Bhuloka also has seven oceans named Lavana, Ikshu, Sura, Sarpih, Dadhi, Dughdha and Jala.
Bharatavarsha lies in Jambudvipa. It is that part of the land which is bounded by the Lavana ocean on the south and the Himalaya mountains on the north. Bharatavarsha is a wonderful place to live in, and even the gods desire to be born in this land. Bharatavarsha is known as karmabhumi. Karma means action. This land is therefore a place where actions have to be performed. Bhoga means to enjoy or savour, Bhogabhumi is a place where the fruits of one’s actions are pleasured or savoured. Bharatavarsha is not a bhogabhumi, it is merely a karmabhumi. The fruits of actions performed in Bharatavarsha are savoured elsewhere. Good deeds are rewarded in heaven (svarloka or svarga) and sins have to be paid for in hell(naraka)."
Shiva Purana - " The earth is divided into seven regions (dvipas), The names of these regions are Jambudvipa, Plakshadvipa, Shalmalidvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Pushkaradvipa and Shakadvipa. These seven regions are surrounded by seven seas. The names of the seas are Lavana, Ikshu, Sarpi, Dadhi, Dugdha, Jala, and Rasa. Mount Sumeru is right in the middle of Jambudvipa. To the north of Sumeru are the mountains Nila and Shvetabhangi and to the south of Sumeru are the mountains Himavana. Hemakuta and Nishada. These mountains are full of all sorts of jewels. Jambudvipa is divided into many parts (varshas). Right in the centre, where Mount Sumeru is located, is Ilavritavarsha. To the south of Sumeru are Bharatavarsha, Kimpurushavarsha and Harivarsha. To the north of Sumeru is Ramyakavarasha. Next to this is Hiranmayavarsha and further north is Uttarakuruvarsha. The four major mountains in Ilavritavarsha are Mandara, Gandhamadana, Vipula and Suparshva. They are respectively to the east, south, west, and north of Sumeru. Bhadrashvavarsha is to the east of Sumeru and Ketumalavarsha is to the west. On the top of Mount Sumeru is Brahma’s famous city. The holy river Ganga flows through the sky and divides into four. The names of these tributaries are Sita, Alakanada, Chakshu and Bhadra. Sita flows to the east of Sumeru, Nanda or Alakananda to the south. Chakshu to the west and Bhadra to the north. Bharatavarsha is bounded by mountain ranges on the north and the sea on the south. Bharatavarsha is divided into nine parts. The names of eight of these parts are Indradyumna, Kaseru, Tamraparna, Soumy, Gabhastimana, Nagadvipa, Gandharva and Varuna. The ninth part is an island surrounded by the ocean. On the eastern side of Bharatavarsha live the kiratas, on the western the yavanas, on the southern the andhras and on the northern the turaskas. The seven major mountains in Bharatavarasha are named Mahendra, Malaya, Sahya, Shuktimana, Riksha, Vindhya and Pariyatra From each of these mountains several rivers flow. Bharatavarsha is a sacred place. Only those who have accumulated punya over a thousand human lives get to be born in Bharatavarsha. Shiva is always present here to offer salvation to the residents."
Vayu Purana - "When it became time for Agnidhra to retire to the forest, he divided Jambudvipa amongst these nine sons. Nabhi inherited the region that lies to the south of the Himalayas. This is the region that subsequently came to be known as Bharatavarsha.
Kimpurusha received Hemakutavarsha, Hari Naishadhvarsha, Ramya Nilavarsha, Harinmana Shvetavarsha, Bhadrashva Malyavanavarsha and Ketumala Gandhamadanavarsha. Ilvarita inherited the region around Mount Sumeru and Kuru the region to the north of Mount Shringavana. To return to the Vayu Purana, Nabhi had a son named Rishabha and Rishabha’s son was Bharata. It was after Bharata that the region which Nabhi ruled over came to be known as Bharatavarsha. Mount Sumeru (Alternatively Meru) is in Jambudvipa.
Kurma purana -" After the name of Bharata, the region that Nabhi ruled over has come to be known as Bharatavarsha. There are fourteen regions (lokas) in the universe. Seven of them form the upper regions. Their names are bhuloka, bhuvarloka, svarloka, maharloka, janaloka, tapolaka and satyaloka. Bhuloka is the earth and its limits extend upto the points that can be lit up the rays of the sun and the moon.There are seven seas that surround the seven dvipas on earth. The names of the seas are Kshara, Ikshu, Sura, Ghrita, Dadhi, Kshira and Svadu. (The names of the seven oceans often differ from Purana to Purana.) Right in the centre of Jambudvipa is Mount Sumeru. To its south lie the mountains Himavana, Hemakuta and Nishadha; and to its north the mountains Nila, Shveta and Shringi. Bharatavarsha is to the south of Mount Sumeru. Brahma’s assembly is located on the peak of Mount Sumeru.
Brahma Purana - "Having heard accounts of the solar and lunar dynasties, the sages requested Romaharshana. "Tell us a little about the geography of the world. What does the earth look like? What are its limits?" Romaharshana obliged. The earth is divided into seven regions (dvipas). Their names are Jambudvipa, Plakshadvipa, Shalmaladvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Shakadvipa and Pushkaradvipa. These regions are surrounded by seven oceans and their names are Lavana, Ikshu, Sura, Sarpi, Dadhi, Dugdha and Jala. Jambudvipa is in the center and right in the middle of Jambudvipa is Mount Sumeru. To the south of Sumeru are the mountains Himavana, Hemakuta and Nishadha and to the north of Sumeru are the mountains Nila, Shveta and Shringi.Jambudvipa itself is divided into several regions (varshas). For example, Sumeru is in the middle of Ilavritavarsha. Braratavarsha is to the south of Sumeru. To the east of Sumeru is Bhadrashvarsha and to the west is Ketumalavarsha. Harivarsha lies to the south and Ramyakavarsha to the north. Still further north is Hiranmayavarsha and beyond that, Uttara Kuruvarsha. Brahma's city is on the peak of Sumeru. It is there that the river Ganga descends from heaven and gets divided into four tributaries. Sita flows eastwards, Chakshu westwards, Bhadra Northwards and Alakananda southwards into Bharatavarsha. There are seven major mountain range sin Bharatavarsha and their names are Mahendra, Malya, Sahya, Shuktimana, Riksha, Vindhya and Pariyatra. Bharatavarsha itself is divided into nine regions (dvipas). The names of eight of these regions are Indradvipa, Soumya, Gandharva and Varuna. The ninth region is completely surrounded by the ocean in all directions. To the east of Bharatavarsha live the Kiratas and to the west the Yavanas. Below the earth lie the seven regions of the underworld (Patala). Their names are Atala, Vitala, Nitala, Sutala, Talatala, Rasatala and Patala. The daityas, danavas and the snakes (sarpa) live there. The underworld is a wonderful place, more beautiful than heaven itself. The sage Narada once went on a trip to the underworld and was bowled over by its beauty. It is full of palaces and jewels. Below the underworld sleeps a great snake, known as Shesha or Ananta. It has a thousand hoods, all covered with jewels. In fact, this snake is really Vishnu in one of this various forms. Also part of the world are hells (naraka), presided over by Yama."
The Markandeya Purana Confirms sizes and Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto!
-"CHAPTER - 54
KRAUSTUKI said: - How many are the islands, the oceans; how many, O thou twice-born one, are the mountains, and how many are also the continents, and what are the rivers of these? What again are the measures of the great elements, and similarly of the mountain Lokaloka and the changes, the measures, and the movements of the moon and the sun. Tell me, O thou great Muni, all this in detail. (1-3)
MARKANDEYA said: - This earth, Oh thou twice-born one, is fully a hundred and a half crore (of yojana) in extent. I shall describe to you all the places contained therein, hear thou of that. (4) Those islands that have been described by me, commencing with the Jambudwipa, O thou twice-born one, and ending with the Puskaradwipa, hear of them again in detail, Oh thou possessor of the eight good qualities of kindness &c. (5) The islands called Jambu, Plaksha, and then, Shamala and Kusha, and Crauncha, similarly Saka and the island Puskara, of these, each succeeding one is double the extent of that which is named before it. (6) And they are covered on all sides by the seven oceans, namely the Labana, the Dugdha, the Sarpi, the Dadhi, the Ikshu, and the Jala, of which also each one is twice the extent of the preceding one. (7) I shall tell you of the position of the Jambudwipa, listen to me. It is in length and breadth a lac of yojana. (8) The seven Kula mountains in this are Himaban, Himakuta, Rishabha, Meru, Neela, Sweta, similarly Sringi. (9) The two great mountains in the middle of it are each a lac of yojana in extent. Of these two, that which is towards the south and that which is towards the north, of them one is less than the other by ten thousand yojana, their height is two thousand yojana and similarly the whole extent of the base is also two thousand yojana. (10-11) All the six Kula mountains enter into the womb of the ocean; and the earth here is sloping towards the south and north, and at the middle it is raised to great heights. (12) Know that on the southern side of this are three continents or Barshas and similarly three on the northern side; and between them the Ilabrata-Barsha stands as a crescent. (13) Towards the east of it is the Barsha of Bhadrashwa, and to the west that of Ketumala, and in the centre of Ilabrata is the golden mountain, Meru. (14) The height of this great mountain is eighty-four thousand yojana; and it has entered into the earth to sixteen thousand yojanas, and is sixteen thousand yojanas in breadth. (15) Because it stands in the form of a circular plate therefore its top is thirty-two yojanas in extent, and on the four sides, commencing with the east, of the four colours, white, yellow, black and red, - the four castes reside, according to their respective colours1. (16-17) In this mountain are the courts of Indra and other protectors of the world, and in the centre of them all, is the court of Brahma, which is fourteen thousand yojanas in height. (18) Similarly below it is the Biskamba mountain, whose height is ten thousand yojana. In the division of sides according to the east , are one after another stationed the mountains Mandara, Gandhamadana, Bipula, and similarly Suparsha, adorned with trees peculiar to each. The mount Mandara has got the Kadamba tree as peculiar to it; while the distinctive tree of Gandhamadana is the Jambu or the jaman; similarly the Aswathwa tree is peculiar to Bipula, and the immense Bata is peculiar to Suparsha; and these mountains are eleven hundred yojanas in extent in all. (19-21) The mountains on the eastern side are Jathara, and Devakuta, and Anila and Nishadha which two have run into each other. (22) Nishadha and Paripatra are situated on the western side of Meru, as in the eastern mountains similarly also in these, the extent is the same as that of Anila and Nishadha. (23) On the south are the two great mountains Kailasa and Himaban they two are extented from east to west and stand extended to the limits of the ocean. (24) Similarly the mountains to the north are Sringaban and also Jarudhi; as in the south so also in the north these extend to the limits of the ocean. (25) Oh thou most excellent Brahman, these eight are called the Maryada mountains. Himabat, Himakuta, and other mountains are at the distance of nine thousand Yojanas from each other, from east to west, and south to north; and are situate on all sides of Meru in the Barsha called Ilabrita. (26-27) Those Jaman or Jambu fruits that grow in the Gandhamadana mountain, of the size of the body of an elephant, fall on the top of the mountain. (28) From the melting of those fruits arise the river known by the name of Jambu, where is produced the gold called Jambunada. (29) She (this river) having encircled the Meru enters again into its own source, and the waters of it are drunk, Oh thou tiger among the twice-born persons, by the people of those regions. (30) Vishnu exists in the Bhadrashwa as Ashwasira, in Bharata as the tortoise, in Ketumala as the boar, and in the next Barsha Ilabrtiha as fish. (31) In these four Barshas objects that defeat the evil influences of stars are arranged according to the arrangement of the stars. (32)
CHAPTER - 55
MARKANDEYA said: - In the four mountains commencing with Mandara; Oh thou most excellent among twice-born persons, the gardens that are four in number, and lakes, hear of them with attention. (1) On the east is the garden named Chaitraratha, on the south the garden Nandan, on the eastern peak is the garden called Baibhraja and on the northern mountain is the garden called Sabitra. (2) The lake Arunoda is on the east, and the Manasa on the south, Shitoda on the west of Meru and similarly Mahabhadra on the north. (3) Sitarta, Chakramunja, Kulira, and then Sukankaban, Manishaila, then Brishaban, Mahanila, the mountain Bhaba, Sabindu, Mandara, Benu, Tamasa, Nishadha likewise Debashaila - the, great mountain to the east of Mandara, Trikuta, Shikharadri, Kalinga, and then Patangaka, Ruchaka, Sanuman mountain, then Tamraka and Bishakhaban, Shetodara, Samula Basudhara, Ratnaban, Ekasringa, Mahashaila, Rajashaila, Pipataka, Panchashaila, then Kailasha, and the most superior among mountains Himabat these mountains are said to be The Brahmins being of white colour occupied the white or the eastern side, the Vaishya of yellow colour, the western side, the Sudra of dark colour occupied the northern side, while the Kshettrya of red colour inhabited the southern side situate on the right (or southern) side of the mountain Meru. (4-8) Suraksha, Shishiraskha, Baidurya, similarly Pingala, Pinjara, and then Mahabhadra, Surasa, Kapila, Madhu, Anjana, Kukkuta, Krishna, and the best of mountains Pandura; and the mount Sahasrashikhara, Paripatra, with Sringaban, are similarly situate on the west of Meru, and Biskama is similarly situate on the other side of the west i.e. the eastern side, of Meru. (9-11) Hear of the other mountains to the north, Sankhakuta, then Brishabha likewise the mountain Hansanabha, similarly the mount Kapilendra, and Sanuman, and Nila, Swarnasringi, Shatasringi, Puspaka, and the Meghaparbata; Birajaksha, the mountain Baraha, Mayura, - these are the mountains to the south of Meru. The valleys of these mountains are exceedingly charming. (12-14) They are adorned with gardens, and lakes and pure water; in them are born men of virtuous deeds. (15) These are as heaven on earth, more meritorious than even heaven itself. In them there is no acquisition of fresh virtue or sin. (16) In them, it is said, that even the gods enjoy the fruits of their righteous deeds. O thou most excellent among the twice-born, towards the close and beginning of the winter, in these mountains, are formed the great and beautiful habitations of Bidyadharas, and Yakshas and Kinnaras, and Nagas, and Rakshasas, and gods, and of the Gandharvas. (17-18) They are highly pure, and have pleasure gardens attached to them that are pleasing to the mind, - and similarly there are in them lakes pleasing to the mind, and of which the breeze is pleasant in all seasons. (19) In these there never arises any uneasiness or want of satisfaction among men. This is the selfsame mundane lotus, described by me, of four leaves; Bhadrashwa and Bharata etc. these are its leaves on the four sides. That region towards the south, called Bharata which has been described by me, is the place of merit and demerit (Karmabhumi) in no other place are the fruits of Karma, enjoyed; in it are all laws established. For this reason are heaven, and the fruits of merit, and all births, human or hellish, and those of birds or of any other animals,attained here only by men. (20-23)
The Following Verses Confirm Bharata Varsha is made up of continents surrounded by sea exactly as the modern world is seen.
Chapter 56 vs(21) of markandeya purana . In the eight Barshas, O thou most excellent among the twice-born persons, commencing with that called the Kimpurusha, the waters flow from out of the womb of the earth; in Bharata, however, water is obtained from the clouds.
CHAPTER - 57
KRAUSTUKI said: - O Revered One, you have in detail described to me the Jambudwipa. This has been related by the revered one that leaving Bharata, actions that produce merit, or that lead to vice, do not exist anywhere else, it is from here that men attain heaven and salvation, both temporary and final; and in no other place on earth are works assigned to men; therefore O Brahman, describe this Bharata to me fully: -what are its divisions and what its limits, as also its exact position, and O thou tiger among the twice-born, tell me also what are its mountains. (1-4)
MARKANDEYA said: - Of this Bharata there are nine divisions, of which hear from me with attention. They are to be known as existing between oceans, and unapproachable from one another. (5) Indradwipa, Kasheruman, Stamrabarna, Gabhastiman, Nagadwipa, likewise Saumya, Gandharba, Baruna, and of them the ninth is this island surrounded by the ocean. This island is one thousand yojana in extent from south to north. (6-7)
(Here we Have a vey important summary of the islands within the area demarcated as "Bharata varsha" and ending with the principle continent after which all the sub continents are grouped/named Bharata varsha, itself a continent of 1000 yojans wide approx the size of the European/asian continent which includes India and Russia.)
This is the Bharatabarsha, which has countries on all its four quarters. (56-58) In the south, the west, and the east of it is the great ocean, while the Himalaya stands to the north of it like the string of a bow. (59) This is that Bharatabarsha, O thou excellent among twice-born persons, which contains the seed of all that exist. It is here, O Brahman, that according to the fruits of people's action the state of Brahman, of the lord of the immortals, of the gods, the state of Maruta similarly, and likewise the births of deer, beasts, Apsaras and of all reptiles, and that of the inanimate objects, are attainable. This is the field of Karma such as exists nowhere else. Oh thou wise among Brahmans, it is the heart's desire even of the gods to be deprived of their state as gods to come to earth as men
(born in Bharatabarsha). Man here does that which even the gods and the Asuras are not able to do. People here are bound by the chains of Karma, and are anxious to finish that Karma; they do no works moved by the least happiness. (60-64)
Mahabharata also confirms the version of Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto with many accounts of the pandavas and especially arjuna Travelling all over Jambhudvip.
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 1
Bhārata-varṣa: This part of the world is also one of the nine varṣas of the Jambūdvīpa. A description of Bhārata-varṣa is given in the Mahābhārata (Bhīṣma-parva, Chapters 9 and 10). In the center of Jambūdvīpa is Ilāvṛta-varṣa, and south of Ilāvṛta-varṣa is Hari-varṣa. The description of these varṣas is given in the Mahābhārata (Sabhā-parva 28.7-8).
SB 1.16.12, Translation and Purport:
Mahārāja Parīkṣit then conquered all parts of the earthly planet—Bhadrāśva, Ketumāla, Bhārata, the northern Kuru, Kimpuruṣa, etc.—and exacted tributes from their respective rulers.
Bhadrāśva: It is a tract of land near Meru Parvata, and it extends from Gandha-mādana Parvata to the saltwater ocean. There is a description of this varṣa in the Mahābhārata (Bhīṣma-parva 7.14-18). The description was narrated by Sañjaya to Dhṛtarāṣṭra.Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira also conquered this varṣa, and thus the province was included within the jurisdiction of his empire. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was formerly declared to be the emperor of all lands ruled by his grandfather, but still he had to establish his supremacy while he was out of his capital to exact tribute from such states.
Ketumāla: This earth planet is divided into seven dvīpas by seven oceans, and the central dvīpa, called Jambūdvīpa, is divided into nine varṣas, or parts, by eight huge mountains. Bhārata-varṣa is one of the above-mentioned nine varṣas, and Ketumāla is also described as one of the above varṣas. It is said that in Ketumāla varṣa, women are the most beautiful. This varṣa was conquered by Arjuna also. A description of this part of the world is available in the Mahābhārata (Sabhā 28.6).
It is said that this part of the world is situated on the western side of the Meru Parvata, and inhabitants of this province used to live up to ten thousand years (Bhīṣma-parva 6.31). Human beings living in this part of the globe are of golden color, and the women resemble the angels of heaven. The inhabitants are free from all kinds of diseases and grief.
Bhārata-varṣa: This part of the world is also one of the nine varṣas of the Jambūdvīpa. A description of Bhārata-varṣa is given in the Mahābhārata (Bhīṣma-parva, Chapters 9 and 10).
In the center of Jambūdvīpa is Ilāvṛta-varṣa, and south of Ilāvṛta-varṣa is Hari-varṣa. The description of these varṣas is given in the Mahābhārata (Sabhā-parva 28.7-8) as follows:
nagarāṁś ca vanāṁś caiva
nadīś ca vimalodakāḥ
puruṣān deva-kalpāṁś ca
nārīś ca priya-darśanāḥ
adṛṣṭa-pūrvān subhagān
sa dadarśa dhanañjayaḥ
sadanāni ca śubhrāṇi
nārīś cāpsarasāṁ nibhāḥ
It is mentioned here that the women in both these varṣas are beautiful, and some of them are equal to the Apsarās, or heavenly women.
Uttarakuru: According to Vedic geography the northernmost portion of Jambūdvīpa is called Uttarakuru-varṣa. It is surrounded by the saltwater ocean from three sides and divided by Śṛṅgavān Mountain from the Hiraṇmaya-varṣa.
Kimpuruṣa-varṣa: It is stated to be situated north of the great Himalaya Mountain, which is eighty thousand miles in length and height and which covers sixteen thousand miles in width. These parts of the world were also conquered by Arjuna (Sabhā 28.1-2). The Kimpuruṣas are descendants of a daughter of Dakṣa. When Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed a horse sacrifice yajña, the inhabitants of these countries were also present to take part in the festival, and they paid tributes to the Emperor. This part of the world is called Kimpuruṣa-varṣa, or sometimes the Himalayan provinces (Himavatī). It is said that Śukadeva Gosvāmī was born in these Himalayan provinces and that he came to Bhārata-varṣa after crossing the Himalayan countries.
In other words, Mahārāja Parīkṣit conquered all the world. He conquered all the continents adjoining all the seas and oceans in all directions, namely the eastern, western, northern and southern parts of the world.
Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Presents sastra ! not vague speculation based on a few sanskrit words taken out of context ,sastra ! not speculation that tries to adapt the vedas to modern mundane scientific views that are simply phantasmagorical imagination based on cgi pictures but sastra !
CC Ādi 7.132 — “The self-evident Vedic literatures are the highest evidence of all, but if these literatures are interpreted, their self-evident nature is lost.
Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada , who was given the title Bhaktivedanta because he was not only a pure devotee but because he was the consumerate expert in the vedanta and vedic scriptures . So everybody accepts Srila Prabhupada as the Acarya yet when they are presented with the inumerable quotes stating that "there is no underneath ", "So it is round and flat - YES" "It is round like a petal" "the flat earthers say it is flat and square - Flat.Flat, YES. But in the vedic sastra it is mentioned bhu-gola . gola means round " they all conveniently ignore it and go back to quoting him out of context or just disregard all the evidence while claiming they have complete faith in devotees, krsna and the scriptures .Somehow we need to overcome the mundane indoctrination of global conditioning since our conception and consider the factual reality oceans do not curve due to gravity and there is no small globe of earth but a plane of earth within Bhumandala !
yasya deve parā bhaktir
yathā deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
"Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." (ŚU 6.23)
Everyone can understand that talk is cheap and real devotion is based on complete surrender and 100% faith. It's not just lip service while maintaining one foot in and one foot out so the herd of other mundane sheep caught in mayas vice grip, will not think we are crazy . Evolution may be easy to dismiss, big bangs etc but will the devotees accept there is no such thing as gravity or a spinning globe the lynchpins of all these other atheistic ideas ie that this worlds geography is described differently by the scriptures.
Therefore we have nothing to stand on, yes we didn't come from monkeys or matter , no explosions don't create intricate diverse wonderful creations , but the world we stand on is this nonsense spinning ball created by godless atheists who challenge the vedas.Then we have no argument its Game over, victory is won when the challenger capitulates his territory. There is no use arguing over rice and vegetables when mundane scientists own the ground upon which the seeds of atheism are grown .We must establish the truth by challenging these rascals !!!
"Prabhupada:- And there are millions of Brahmas, millions, trillions. They are numberless. Ananta-koti. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-kotih [Bs. 5.40]. Koti. Koti means unlimited. Jagad-anda. Jagad-anda means universe. Brahmanda or jagad-anda. Anda. Anda means it is egg-shaped, round, egg-shaped. Therefore it is called anda, brahmanda. Bhu-gola. Gola means round. I have heard that before the science, the people were under the impression that this world is square. Is it not?
Devotees: Flat.
Prabhupada: Flat. Flat, YES. But in the Vedic sastra, millions of years ago it is mentioned: bhu-gola. Gola means round. Just see. And these rascals say that formerly people were not so intelligent. They are intelligent because they are thinking that this world is flat. And those who have spoken millions of years ago, "It is round," they will have less intelligence. Just see. Bhu, gola. Gola means round. Bhu-gola. Similarly, jagad-anda. Abda means round, just like egg. Anda means egg. Jagad-anda. This universe is egg-shaped. And we can see also, the sky is round. This is the wall of this universe."
old.prabhupadavani.org/Gita/web/text/001_to_100/GT027.html
How is Bhumandala a globe in what context?
So clearly here what we have is Srila Prabhupada saying it is not square but globe brainwashed people will assume he is comparing round to a small globe earth . They are so indoctrinated into global consciousness they think he is saying that the earth within bhumandala is not a plane its a small round sphere lol . NO he is saying the universe is an egg a brahmananda that the sky is a spherical due to this bramananda so any description of jambhudvipa or earth as a small globe is not due to the earth being a globe shape but due to the sphere of the universe that encapsulates it ! In addition bhumandalas outer loka loka mountains is a globe like lotus but inside it is a mandala which is a plane and round ! So round in that context of a sphere is a possible interpretation but not when the sentence of the text begins "Flat.Flat. YES" he cleverly says "flat. YES" to indicate the plane within Bhumandala, not some mundane approximation of Bharata varsha as a small spinning earth globe above Bhumandala, which is totally delusional considering the reality of sastra !
"Prabhupāda: Lotus is also round. Lotus, that petal is also round. Lotus petal is round. So within one lotus petal this round or that round, there is."
"Bhakti-prema: Earth is round and flat both, together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "
Curve or Perspective (There is no Curve or Santa spinning Ball!)
BUT WHERE IS THE UNDERNEATH???
"Prabhupāda: So we are also conditioned. But as far as possible we take description from Bhāgavata, try to. That is our... Suppose here is India, here is Los Angeles. You start from India, Los Angeles..., or India, you'll come to Los Angeles. And again return to India. Similarly you start from this again going.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.
Prabhupāda: But where is the underneath?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Prabhupāda, we weren't asking that issue. That's not the question we were asking.
Prabhupāda: What is that issue?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what you've explained, if it's a lotus petal, then you could fly around it. That's all right. Then the answer is there. But if there's no lotus petal and it's simply flat, then it's a problem. That's a problem.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say flat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've pictured it like that. There's some defect in our picture. If you recall, there's a picture we drew...
Prabhupāda: So rectify it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, well how?
Prabhupāda: That is the explanation. Petal."
vanisource.org/wiki/770703_-_Conversation_-_Vrndavana
So no it is not specifically all flat there is mountains and oceans that must have basins to hold the water .Srila Prabhupada specified like a lotus petal on occasion making the assertion it is not simply flat . Yet common sense clearly shows at no time did Srila Prabhupada advocate that the earth is this small spinning crock of globull nonsense .YES SRILA PRABHUPADA REJECTED THE MUNDANE "FLAT EARTH" !!! because it was such a limited understanding nevertheless he adamantly accepted the plane within Bhumandala with the outer Loka Loka Mountains as the boundary containing the celestial bodies above the earth and the Subterranean Realms within the earth ! vedic-cosmos-asitis.boards.net/thread/11/bhumandala-plane-lotus-small-earth
(One day I hope to see all the Mt meru diagrams with 16% underground to scale, please disregard the incorrect scale of the bottom left image in this diagram)
Srimad Bhagavatam || 5.24.7 ||
upavarṇitaṁ bhūmer yathā-sanniveśāvasthānam avaner apy adhastāt sapta bhū-vivarā ekaikaśo yojanāyutāntareṇāyāma-vistāreṇopakḷptā atalaṁ vitalaṁ sutalaṁ talātalaṁ mahātalaṁ rasātalaṁ pātālam iti.
Translation:
I have already described the position and divisions of the earth. Beneath this earth are seven other planets, known as Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talātala, Mahātala, Rasātala and Pātāla whose width and length are 10,000 yojanas, with an interval of 10,000 yojanas between each one.
Commentary by Srila Visvanatha Cakravati Thakhur :-
Below the earth, in different parts, are the seven lower planets. Bhū-vivaraḥ means “in hollow cavities of the earth.” It refers to Atala and the other planets. Antaram means a space or limit according to Amara-koṣa. Thus from the earth, to a limit of 10,000 yojanas Atala extends. From Atala, Vitala extends another 10,000 yojanas. Their length and breath are also 10,000 yojanas. The heights of the places are as much as possible (within 10,000 yojanas).
"Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of rascal's statement?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No value. Lunatic asylum.
Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear him. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal, so we don't accept any statement. What do you think?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm just trying to think of the description of the Jambūdvīpa.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you say. But be aware you are rascal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have the practical task of...
Prabhupāda: No test.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No—task.
Prabhupāda: No test. Mother says "Here is your father." That's all. Finish. You cannot test. Then you are rascal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not test. I said...
Prabhupāda: No, these things cannot be tested.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I'm not saying...
Prabhupāda: Mother says, "Here is your father." That's all. Finish. No test. No question. That is foolishness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was using the word "task." That to... Well, I'll have to bring in Bhakti-prema Swami. Maybe he can speak better. I'm not able to explain. But according to the description in the Bhāgavatam, everything that we've read, it is not petals. So let's... I don't know. On one hand you are asking us to follow the...
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, every point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ."
So time and time again people repeat the same globull affirmations/questions showing the same proof they regurgitate without a shred of practical evidence . Ok follow Sadaputa das, follow mundane scholars, and question again and again how can sastra be correct when scientists claim otherwise, despite there sophomoric hoax Nasa evidence from hoax Satellites and lack of any tangible physical evidence. vedic-cosmos-asitis.boards.net/thread/14/satellites-hoax-space
Let us ask who is following Srila Prabhupada ? What is your adhikhar do you have Faith in the Founder Acarya of iskcon or do you think you are more intelligent ? Many may be following and even sincerely presented Bhagavatam in good faith, nevertheless what is there adhikar have they presented the Sastra as it is or according to there mundane conditioning .
Who accepts sastra ?
"Bhakti-prema: Earth is round and flat both, together.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-prema: First we should... We can reply it is acintya. This should be the reply. "Inconceivable."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then why are we showing them...
Yaśodā-nandana: If it is inconceivable, then they will say, "How we can conceive it?"
Prabhupāda: Take the version of Bhāgavatam.
Bhakti-prema: Everything we conceived, that is wrong?
Prabhupāda: Everything you conceived, that is wrong.
Bhakti-prema: Yes. Very good point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore inconceivable.
Bhakti-prema: The Lord is inconceivable always and any (indistinct), it is inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: But we have to accept śāstra. vanisource.org/wiki/Discussion_about_Bhu-mandala_--_July_5,_1977,_Vrndavana ( link needs to be copied and pasted , it would appear to be difficult to link only those who are sincerely seeking the truth may enter lol)
What does sastra say ?
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
SB 5.20.38 — Learned scholars who are free from mistakes, illusions and propensities to cheat have thus described the planetary systems and their particular symptoms, measurements and locations. With great deliberation, they have established the truth that the distance between Sumeru and the mountain known as Lokāloka is one fourth of the diameter of the universe — or, in other words, 125,000,000 yojanas [1 billion miles].
Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada did not say a ball/globe/sphere and flat he said round and flat . Srila Prabhpada did mention round in the context of scientists globe yet only to define there argument not as tacit agreement. He clearly specified on many occasions the context he meant round ie on a lotus petal not a sphere .
"Prabhupāda: Yes, it is round. You are thinking round. You are going round... (break)
Prabhupāda: Lotus is also round. Lotus, that petal is also round. Lotus petal is round. So within one lotus petal this round or that round, there is.
Śatadhanya: And within their own limited sphere they can go this way or that way. But they don't know the whole shape.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to draw the shape probably, because according to what we've drawn so far...
Prabhupāda: That you can do, but real thing is we can remain within the limit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.
Prabhupāda: So within the limit... Suppose the lotus petal is this way, that way, or this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're asking us to draw the details and make a planetarium very exact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You make... Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go."
(This map is for illustration purposes to show circumnavigation on a plane. Atm there is no accurate world map globe, plane or otherwise, I wonder why ? www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2596783/Why-world-map-youre-looking-WRONG-Africa-China-Mexico-distorted-despite-access-accurate-satellite-data.html )
So it is Round and flat how will we understand this Srila Prabhupada says we should accept the version of Srimad Bhagavatam!!!
It is Round like a lotus flower and also flat like the petals of the lotus within, with Mt Sumeru as the pericarp and the islands represent the whorls of that lotus .
SB 5.16.5 — The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.
SB 5.20.38 — Learned scholars who are free from mistakes, illusions and propensities to cheat have thus described the planetary systems and their particular symptoms, measurements and locations. With great deliberation, they have established the truth that the distance between Sumeru and the mountain known as Lokāloka is one fourth of the diameter of the universe — or, in other words, 125,000,000 yojanas [1 billion miles].
Surya Siddhanta contradicts the puranas or does it ?
The only scripture that describes the small spinning globe is an adaptation of the Surya siddhanta where globe statistics have been inserted from modern figures . It is irrelvent whether statistics that approximate the dimensions of the known world have been inserted or not , that is simply a coincidence for calculation sake only. Why debate over every seeming contradiction between the flat vs globe model the Surya Siddhanta presents when it is clearly a science for calculating temporal celestial bodies locations and distances ?
Rather as Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Jagat Guru Srila BhaktiSiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada Thakhur , Srila Bhaktivinod Thakhur and the previous acharyas commentaries such as Srila Sridhar Svami, Srila Visvanatha Cakravati Thakhur, Srila Jiva Goswami have all given the opinion that the Srimad Bhagavatam is not a literary device then we should accept there Authority. If any acharya such as Sri Vamsidhara has deviated from that opinion, it must be considered a preaching strategy due to compassion on pig headed globullists, who are so conditioned by there frog pond mentality they cannot conceive of any other reality then this imaginary, hocus pocus, spinning santa ball, otherwise what is the need to debate ?
Srila Prabhupada further elaborates on this same subject:
We can see that at night, how the whole planetary system is turning around,the pole star being the pivot. Each planet has its orbit fixed but the sun is moving up and down, north and south. It is not that we shall accept the theory that the sun is fixed up and the others are all going around the sun. That is not correct. Even the 7th star is rotating once around the pole star in each 24 hours. The whole universe is just like a big tree, that is a fact. I do not think that the modern astronomers have any such idea that the whole universe is like a big tree. The planets which are full of living entities are one after another, one above the other. The relative positions
of the planets is fixed up but the whole thing is turning. The sun is going north and south, it has its own orbit below the moon. (Letter to: Svarupa Damodara — Auckland 27 April, 1976)
We must not imagine a non-physical literary device which is neither stated nor inferred by the speaker.
What is rotten and unconscionable is that even though the text of surya siddhanta that has not been amended to include modern data, describes the process used to calculate celestial bodies temporal positions and distances is an imaginary wooden globe model, with a stick thru the centre that represents imaginary poles, despite this it is being used to discredit the correct sastric model of bhumandala .This Science was taught to Mayadanava an asura who is expert in architecture and yantras (mechanical objects) so is there any doubt that the globe is anything but a mechanical contrivance ? Why is it that Srila Prabhupada never insisted on the small earth globe being in the vedic planetarium if this Surya Siddhanta model was nothing more then a mechanical device for calculating astrological data ?
Surya Siddhanta -
From Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakhur Prabhupadas Surya Siddhanta Siromani commentary -
I am sure that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakhur would be apalled to know that the text which he did a commentary on to show the superiority of vedic astrology and thus increase faith in the vedic sciences was being used to discredit the correct cosmology of the Sastras ! This is a slap in the face of honest devotees who have studied the sastras . In there zeal to promote the vedic truths as compatible with modern mundane scientific views, sincere neophyte devotees have unwittingly shot themselves in the foot . Yet just as Sankaracarya has appeared with a specific mission and lord Buddha also one can only assume that this was the lords plan all along. That in due course when it is most suitable the truth will be established again and Lord Caitanyas movement victorious . Param Vijayate Sri Krsna Sankirtan .
Bhugola describes the lotus of bhumandala with Mt Sumeru as the merucentric centre as a pericarp of the lotus . The various islands are like petals of the lotus and the outer cup of the lotus is the loka loka mountains that extend above svarga enclosing the celestial bodies within .
For a description of how everybody perceives the sun to be directly overhead no matter what there perspective in relation to the position of the sun over and above manosottara mountain in front and behind see the article - vedic-cosmos-asitis.boards.net/thread/12/suryadevs-position-overhead-explained-close
